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I think the stereotype about Cantonese by Northern Chinese are just their own imaginary image that they created because of their assumption that because we are geographically the southern most province in china, they automatically assume we "should" look totally non-han, when actually Cantonese on average look like any other Han Chinese, except the only difference is the height. If you look at this video of your average Taishanese for example, you will see they look Han: http://www.56.com/u7...TQ4NzA1MzA.html

all stereotypes have an element of truth to them. there is so much genetic variation within the Chinese Han population that it is not absurd at all to deduce that Han Chinese living in the South of China will have an overlap of genetic make-up with their South Eastern brethren due to ethnic-mixing, invasions, etc. and this can be reflected in their physical appearance too. the truth is that if you walk down a street in Guangdong you will find plenty of people who fit the "North Chinese" image - as well as, if not more, people who fit the "South Chinese" image due to the above reasons.  

your attempt to create countless threads about "how Taishanese/South Chinese have North Chinese physical attributes, e.g. pale skin, high nose, etc." to defend the recognition that South Chinese are *pure Han Chinese* is having the exact opposite effect. human beings are all unique, we all have a different genetic make-up, and this variation within the human race is what is worth noting, respecting, and accepting. you do not have to keep trying to *prove* to the forum that Taishanese people are just like the Northern Han people in terms of physical attributes, because the simple fact is, whilst they do share similar attributes, there is a noticeable difference between North and South Chinese - and this has been proved countless times throughout the various threads on the genetic make-up of mainland China.

the fact that you keep on posting select videos with Taishanese people that happen to exhibit Northern Chinese physical features just smells of insecurity and the narrow-minded belief that the North is better than the South and it relates to what is what was once *pure* Han Chinese - it is also very shallow. get over it, seriously. you have posted so many threads about this issue, often drawing mundane and inconclusive connections between things, e.g.

Also many famous Shanghainese Actresses comes from the Taishan area of Guangdong: (What is interesting is that they all married shanghainese guys)

- that isn't interesting at all - the logical reason why they married Shanghainese men is because they were working in Shanghai, i.e. Shanghainese actresses, and so all the available men around them were most probably Shanghainese.

Since China has been a civilization state, and the only major civilization state in history with the exception of the Roman Empire, it's population as a proportion of the world's was always higher than other states, so it's losses in terms of casualties in demographic declines are higher.

I don't really see a problem in this statement as it said logistic capability and mobility in conjunction as a whole. The Han campaign against the Xiongnu were made with horses alone because it was faster, and logistics here, which needs to conform to mobility was certainly largely determined by horses. On the other hand, I can understand why he would get fed up with nitpicking on small isues like this and comments such as "I have to correct you on this" when in fact such statements are very vaguely made.

Could it be that they only "seem" vaguely made because it is a tactic of being non threatening in trying to verify answers for some standpoint which you obviously don't agree with? or do you mean speaking in code?  If you are talking about Aznvaledictorian you should see the technicality and painstaking care he goes to bring forth arguments which provide for the important task of verification.  Flavivslg too.  It's the reason why I "argue" to individuals like these not because they are vague but because by giving your input to them you will receive plenty of output and more back and forth interactivity for the topic is realized.

"Can Morality Exists Without Religion/God?"

My answer to this question is yes.  I believe morality came before religion, not the other way around.

To explain my answer, I’d like to speak from the evolutionary biology perspective.  Natural selection doesn't operate on the group/species level - rather, it operates on the gene and individual level.  This is why pure altuism is not an evolutionary stable strategy, so therefore can not exist by a majority for any great length of time.  Altruism that actually exists in humans and other species has been linked to reciprocity and kinship, which accounts for the individual or selfish motive.  Robert Axelrod and William Hamilton have discovered that in a complex adaptive system, cooperation based on reciprocation can be an evolutionary stable strategy under the right circumstances and it is this type of strategy that strengthens a group for the benefit of each individual.

In light of the above, I’m with TheAznValedictorian when he says that morals can be instinctual.  If we consider reciprocal and kinship altruism as moral behaviour, then morality definitely can and does exist without religion among many different species.

I’d also like to put forward Robert Wright's definition of morality in his book "Moral Animal", which states, "thus a moral code is an informal compromise among competing spheres of genetic self-interest, each acting to mold the code to its own ends, using any levels at its disposal.".  This basically implies that morality is, in Wright’s words and sentiment again, an “informal political process”.  I think this is in line with evolutionary realities.  

Not only do I think morality can exist without religion, I believe that religion and its different forms were born from this evolved behaviour for the same reason found in Wright’s quote.  In fact, many religions apply morality in ways that are ineffective and harmful because they contradict the realities that natural selection dictates.  An example of this is the common ideal of pure altruism that is connected and taught by many religions.  It is not only an impractical ideal, for reasons previously covered in this post, but it consequentially leaves the individual who practices it in a position to be exploited.  Another problem is when religions and morality promote contentious moral dualism such as the relationship between good and evil.  To quote forensic psychiatrists James Knoll:

“It is argued that evil can never be scientifically defined because it is an illusory moral concept, it does not exist in nature, and its origins and connotations are inextricably linked to religion and mythology.”
  
So, if we are to take the above quote as true, this dualism contradicts nature as a whole.  As well, from a Nietzschean perspective, this dualism encourages an individual to institute a hostile external world in which they must resist to uphold this morality.  This can have many negative effects, one being that it can hamper a person’s ability to improve because the focus is external instead of internal.  

Though morality has a focus of collective wellbeing, this doesn’t have to conflict with an individual’s ability to survive and thrive, and it can’t if it is to be practical in reality.  So, where religion and morality goes right is when they are in line with our nature.  To quote Nietzsche:  

"All that is good is instinct" -Friedrich Nietzsche, Twilight of the Idols, The Portable Nietzsche, translated by Walter Kaufmann  

"Every naturalism in morality---that is, every healthy morality---is dominated by an instinct of life." -Friedrich Nietzsche, Twilight of the Idols, The Portable Nietzsche, translated by Walter Kaufmann

I think this is in line with Laozi’s teachings, which promotes ziran(naturalnes) through wu wei(natural action/effortless action).  Instead of condemning aspects of our world we take an impartial perspective that embraces our passions and instincts and spiritualizes them to improve our effectiveness in our reality.    

I like this thread - just wanted to contribute some thoughts.

Quite a few times, I have heard passing comments about ceramic pipelines used in ancient China.
Can anybody give me more info about it?

Thank you

According to this site http://www.kepu.net....0312300037.html, the Chinese had been using ceramic pipelines (陶水管） as early as Shang dynasty. Towards late Shang dynasty period, a three-way ceramic pipe appeared in ancient China, which were used used for drainage system.

In the archaeological excavation of the ruins of Yin (capital of Shang), there were discovery of north-south ceramic pipelines as long as 7.9m. It was inter-connected by 17 pipes. The east-west pipelines were 4.62m long and inter-connected by 11 pipes. The north-south pipelines and east-west pipelines were in turn joined by a three-way joint-pipe. These pipelines were used for drainage. Each pipe is about 40-50 cm long, diameter is around 20cm, wall thickness around 1.3cm. The joints can either be flat connection or insert-jack connection.

Below are some pictures of the Shang ceramic pipe from the Yin museum (at Anyang) excavated from ruins of Yin.





Below is an excavated ceramic pipeline from Fengxiang Drainage ruins of Western Zhou period (鳳翔水溝遺址出土陶水管)


Below is a 5-sided ceramic pipeline from Qin period


Below is a ceramic pipeline from ruins of Erlitou


Below is a ceramic pipeline originating from Tang dynasty from Musuem of Aksu in Xinjiang province. It was used for city drainage. Excavated from ancient city of Koestler


In ancient Chinese source Guanzi Dudi 《管子•度地》, there were already records about the the scientific principles of drainage system in pipelines: Pressure inverted siphon flow 压倒虹吸水流

水之性，行至曲，必留退，满则后推前，地下则平行，地高即控。

Translation: The nature of water is such that if the water moves to a curving spot, it will retain backward movement. If the water is full, the back will push the front. At ground bottom, it will move in a parallel manner, at high ground, it should be controlled.

What this means is that if the drainage water moves from one end to a curving spot in the pipeline, it will first fill up the entire siphon. This will produce the 'backward flow retention movement'. After that, it will then use the back to drive the front and flow out from the other end. When water flows through buildings, it will encounter certain loss in energy. Thus, one needs to make sure that the entry and exit of the pipes had some differences in the height (exit height should be lower than entry height). Then, this will cause the water to flow smoothly. Otherwise, the drainage water will undergo the 'pressure inverted flow' preventing the water to flow through.

Below show some pictures of pipelines


Sketches of direct and 3-way drainage ceramic pipes in Yang city 阳城 (Late Warring States Period), source: 《登封王城岗与阳城》


Sketches of 4-way controlled ceramic pipelines in Yang city 阳城 (Late Warring States Period), source: 《登封王城岗与阳城》

Hello,

In order to practice reading classical Chinese, I have started translating some chapters of the 列女传 ("Biographies of Notable Women") and provide vocabulary lists for the words that were new to me.

At the time of writing, I have only finished five chapters (mostly from the section of wicked ladies): Lienü Zhuan

At the end of each article, I have included a list of questions of interpretation to anyone who feels up to the task. If any of you people do, you can just post your opinions in this thread.
I have only studied classical Chinese (on and off) for a couple of years, so there are very likely other errors, feel free to point those out too.

This is work-in-progress, so the style can be somewhat different in the various chapters. Initially I tried to translate into Mandarin as well, but that turned out to be a bit too difficult for me, but some Mandarin translations (corrected by Chinese friends) are still present.

I hope that with the help of others, eventually this will become a useful reader for other students. The Lienü Zhuan is very amusing at times, and its language is usually quite simple.

Hi all,

I'm pleased to inform you that I've finally completed the upgrade and customization of the forum software to IPB3.0.3. I do apologize for several days of downtime, as there were many works to do during this upgrade. The forum software codings are all different and it took me a long time to familiarize with the codings, especially when designing the skin.

Nevertheless, I've re-designed the skin. As usual, it features Chinese design.

There are many new functions associated with this new forum. You might want to surf around to familiarize with the new functions.

For new functions, you can refer to http://forums.invisi...0

Just some interesting features include anti-Spam control for moderators, PM comes with chat,l URL is search-engine friendly etc.

Like I said,he was harshly judged as a traitor.........
IMHO,he was also a clever oppurtunist btw......

He did tried to rebel to regain a native Han Dynasty, but with him as a Emperor.

Summary of what he did during this era:

Told to guard San Hai Guan

Let Manchu in because Chen Yuan Yuan was taken by Li Zhi Cheng

Help Manchu destroy rebel forces

Help Manchu to destroy Southern Ming

Killed the last Southern Ming Emperor

Granted Yunan as his turf. Build army with the other 2 Han Princes

Too powerful and Manchu tried to strip him of his power

Rebel against Manchu claiming he is "Fan Qing Fu Ming"

Conclusion: He is like Yuan Shikai and Cao Cao. He placed personal ambition above good of the nation. A 奸雄。

朱家麵﹐李家磨﹐
做成一個大饃饃﹐
送給對巷趙大哥。

The flour belonged to the Zhu family.
The Li family kneaded the dough
and made it into a big dumpling
The dumpling was handed over to elder brother Zhao.

All of the clamor to invade China was raised by conquistadors like Cortes, or would be conquistadors like Sanchez.  There were many Spaniards of the nobility that petitioned the Emperor for guns, men and permission to invade China, but permission was never granted.  It is a little known fact that the head of the Jesuit order, Jose Acosta, wrote the Vatican position paper titled ..Why It WouldBe Immoral to Invade China. The reasons were political. WWW.qrising.com

In drama shows, it seems they always protray Wei Zhongxian as very powerful and he have the power to topple Emperor Chongzhen.

 

Is this true?

 

He is only a eunuch and if he wants to beome emperor, there are so many fedual princes holding power in all the provinces of Ming Dynasty.

 

Will they just sit there and watch Wei Zhongxian become emperor and set up his own dynasty?

 

Surely they will join force together and attack him

 

Light, what drama shows are you refering to exactly?

 

Sorry, Wei Zhongxian toppled Emperor Tianqi. I was mistaken in an early post.

"Trolling much?" If you don't get that then you're probably not the most up to date on American internet lingo. I understand most people here probably aren't young people from the U.S., so your failure to comprehend I can deal with.

This all started when somebody told somebody else that their English required improving while typing those remarks with not so perfect grammar. Even though the respondant didn't seem to have read the original question carefully, the reaction he got deserved to be called out for hypocrisy.

我没有弄错。阁下看似没有读过中国语言史吧？ 请问你如何把语言和方言做个区分？

"闽南话"是方言还是语言目前仍是一种争议。我认为他是各种汉语中的一种，而原因是因为他跟普通话完全不一样，并且无法沟通。虽然都用汉字书写，但闽南语的文法却保留了中古汉语/即文言文的特征，拥有7种声调，且有1700年的发展史。反观北方话则只有4种声调，而且具体发展史只有800年，是由中古汉语"雅语"演化而成，而且文法已变成了今日的白话文。如果你读一下中国语言史的话，就会了解福建省一直到了20世纪初才开始说普通话。而之前，则都是用"当地方言"来沟通及教学。

为什么中国古代文献都是用文言文写的呢？而且一用就是2000年不变？原因就是北方与南方有极大不同的语言差异 （尤其是口头语）。因此，为了沟通的需要，才必须统一书写方式。

一般来说，中国的语言学家认为中国只有一种汉语，即所谓的中文（普通话/国语/华语），而其他南方的"方言"如闽南话，粤语则是"汉语方言"，有贬低闽南话之举。但是，西方学者则认为中国有许多种汉语。闽南语只是"闽语系"的一种方言，而"闽语"和"北方官话"（普通话）则是两种汉语的关系，不是所谓'汉语-普通话的一种方言'。

中国为了在政治上团结各汉族，消除各汉族群之间的语言差异，防止中国分裂，才在20世纪大力推行"普通话"运动。由此才有了"国语"/"普通话"作为中国的官方语言，各汉族之间的共同语。最近社科院统计出来的数据显示中国共有129种语言，因此中国是个多语言的国家。

实际上，在中国南方， 一直到了1940年之前，仍有许多学校继续用闽南话或粤语等方言来授课。在古代的福建省南部，当人们要朗诵唐诗时，有谁会用"普通话"来朗诵？他们全都是用闽南话来朗诵的。

今天的香港的官方语言为何是粤语而不是普通话？原因是粤语在中国广东省一路来都是南方主要普遍的一种的汉语。香港在回归中国之前曾受到英国殖民统治，因而没有受到中国民国初期"国语运动"的影响，所以把粤语的传统保留下来了。

台语，即我的母语，是闽南语的一支，即闽南方言的一种。我虽然在家里讲中文，但毕竟普通话还是个北方话，源自北方。他并非是我的母语，只能说是个附属母语。我真正的母语是闽南话，因为我的祖先源自福建惠安。 我想今日的华人大都被"华语化"了，甚至都不了解自己的语言和文化根源。

 

 

雖然這是壇主五年前的發言，但我看了後仍有些淺見很想分享。

 

我在臺灣受教育，是所謂"外省人"後代，和大陸人也有些往來。就我了解，其實"中文"或"華文"(Chinese)的"字面"原義應只是"中國語文"或"中華語文"之類的縮寫，在現代的日常語境裡常同時包含"語言"和"文字"，而"華語"在字面上可指"華人的語言"、"華夏語言"等，並非特指北方官話。換言之，廣義上只要屬中國人民或華人的語文皆可稱"中文"，當然也就有多種；但狹義上，"中文"常指"漢語"(漢人的固有語文)，畢竟漢語最具代表性且是"漢字"的原生對應語，而漢語當然有很多子類，但現代漢語中受官方推崇的通用語是"北方官話"，更準確地說是"北京官話"(國語、普通話)，所以很多人說到"中文"-特別是教老外時-直接聯想的大概就是普通話，但這是考量現代社會上約定俗成或政治義涵語境下的結果，並不能否定它原本的語義，將它窄化成普通話有些片面。

 

無論普通話(Mandarin)或閩南語、粵語的有何位階關係，仍都是一種漢人語言的不同發展，當然也算作中文或漢語，這種論點原意並非在否認貶低閩南語(含臺語)的價值或漢語的多樣性，而是說明它們沒有發展成本質完全不同的語言。中國古代通用書面語雖是文言，但閩南語或粵語仍有對應的漢文本字，至今仍找的到，而這些本字的韻或聲和現在的官話發音仍有相似之處。譬如閩南語裡的"隨便"，其實講的是"請裁"(請它人裁示)，只是發音由普通話的3聲(請)和2聲(裁)，通通轉成4聲。此外，我們知道Mandarin原義指"官話"(雅音、雅言...)，但官話也有多種流變，北京官話在一些語言學分類上只算北方官話系統的一個支系，亦即"官話裡的方言"，現代人說的國語(普通話)其實嚴格講是北京官話的變體。閩南語、粵語總體上亦是上古或中古的中原雅音在南方混合當地語言後的發展，只是沒有如北方官話受到那麼多"胡音"影響。但無論誰為方言誰是雅言，這些受歐美語言學範式影響產生所謂的"主系"、"支系"或"並立體系"...等語系位階的分類，至少在19世紀以前的中國應該沒有，雖然中國從先秦時期就是多語國家，不只是現在，但官話、方言的區分原本沒有涉及太多褒貶評價，從"一傅眾咻"的典故(楚人學齊語)可多少看出古人通常沒有瞧不起地方語言，定性某種語言為方言會產生貶意也是中國受近代民族國家論調影響的演變，然而隨知識或教育水準普遍提高，現代人對方言的"偏見"應也是逐漸下降，至少我在臺灣已感受不到，且不也有許多有識之士開始反思以往方言政策妥當性?

 

我想有些人(包括我)看到壇主的語言排列方式感到奇怪，就在於壇主將臺語(臺式閩南語)和中文並列有將它抽離中文、排除於中文的感覺。且依我在臺灣的生活經驗，有時將中文與臺語並立甚至也隱含政治訴求，故也容易讓人有其它聯想。當然壇主應是為強調這些語言於特定時空語境下衍生出的意義，但這多少會讓詞彙的本義被忽略。畢竟無論實際上或邏輯上，現今漢語已無法包含中國所有語言，但中文可能包含漢語甚至漢語以外的中國語言，即使中文指的只是漢語，閩南語(含臺語)和官語作為漢人的固有語言當也無疑屬於漢語。"Mandarin Chinese"  and "Min Nan Chinese" are all Chinese。最後為免誤解，我必須強調我這些話絕無汙衊或質疑你的意思，壇主費心經營此站，熱愛傳統中國文化、忠於歷史傳承的心有目共睹。

https://digitalcolle...2048/index.html - new link.

Yes, it indeed came from the word of Caucasus (name of a region near the Caspian sea). Not actually related to "Asia".
[More detail From Wiki, Pliny the Elder's Natural History (AD 77-79) derives name of Caucasus Scythian kroy-khasis (“ice-shining, white with snow”). this Greeks called it Καύκασος (Kaukasos). http://en.wikipedia....i/Caucasus#Name —— indeed not etymologically related to "Asia"]

And why did "White People" came to be called Caucasians?
Because a European scientist thought that people from Caucasus region represented this "race" very well. (though he was more focused in bone structure rather than skin complexion, so technically "White People" is a subtype of Caucasians, not synonym)

I would copy the wording from from http://en.wikipedia..../Caucasian_race

• The concept of a Caucasian race or Varietas Caucasia was developed around 1800 by Johann Friedrich Blumenbach, a German scientist and classical anthropologist.[8] Blumenbach named it after the Caucasian peoples (from the Southern Caucasus region), whom he considered to be the archetype for the grouping.[9] 
• Alongside the anthropologist Georges Cuvier, Blumenbach classified the Caucasian race by cranial measurements and bone morphology

The edict was issued by Khubilai Khan in 1263. According to the law only members of military households, Uighurs, Muslims, Ortogh merchants (Ortoghs were merchant associates), members of hunting households, police officers, and darughachis (Mongol-appointed civil officials) were allowed to carry weapons. Furthermore, the government prohibited the buying or selling of bamboo (which could be used to make weapons) and held a monopoly on that market. 

 

 

But some Chinese may have gotten around the law. Darughachis were Mongol-appointed officials whose job it was to monitor Chinese officials at all levels. In theory, all darughachis were either Mongols or western Asians. But in reality there werent enough foreigners to fill those positions so they started going to Chinese. As darughachis, these Chinese were probably allowed to carry weapons. But the average Chinese person couldn't. As you can imagine a lot of people, even within Khubilai's own government, didn't like this law. And I bet there were a lot of illegal weapons floating around.

We have obviously not become, as a society, smarter, however, we have become, by far, the trickiest of the monkeys.

 

If we were smarter, we would not keep following the same self destructive paths. Our problem is with wisdom, it's just not transferrable.

 

It takes a lifetime of learning from our errors and then.....gasp, we are gone, with all those damned epiphanies with us !

  I couldn't disagree with you more. Just because technology advances, doesn't mean people are smarter. It means we have developed a system of archiving things properly, so when a discovery is made, the knowledge isn't lost. There are few people today as smart as Archimedes. If we're so smart, how come we still haven't figured out that plastic is going to be our destruction. Once we got enough of that **** in the oceans, it's goodbye cousins. 

  There is wisdom in living in hut, and spearing your own fish.

Extracted from an earlier link:

 

The first four are the toughest to find Benzi which are finally found. 

 

 

 

Hello,


My name is Michael B. Hickland. I’m an author, retired corporate executive and amateur history buff. I’m a graduate of the University of Florida and attended Delaware Law School. During my earlier career I traveled extensively to many countries. In Asia, the Mongol ruler dominates history like no other. I am both fascinated and intrigued by this enigmatic leader. So, I decided to devote myself to learning and writing about him. I will be offering both facts and context about the events that shaped the boy, the man, the leader, the conqueror and his motivation. through my new blog entries. I don't know if my interest in all of the archaeological efforts to locate the tomb qualifies me, but after three years of research I'm also writing a book on the above subject. It will be released later this year. 

So I'm inviting you to visit my blog The Mystery of Genghis Khan’s Treasure.Simply Google the title to find the link. If nothing else you might find it interesting to follow the adventure. A subscription is free and my blog entries will be delivered by email. I hope you take a look.


Sincerely,

Michael B. Hickland

New as in how long has it been since a dialect with features that are recognizable as "Cantonese" appeared, new as in how long has it been since historical records talked about a distinct dialect in Guangdong, or new as in how recently it separated from other dialects? LOL you gotta be specific.