22 replies to this topic

[Guangdong]

My friend's family who are Hakka from Vietnam are really fair. Their extended family who also married only with other Hakka and their offsprings are also really fair, pinkish skin almost mistaken for 混血 of Eurasian descent...but they are all pure blooded Hakka from Meixian Guangdong...and went back there many times (from overseas) to get married with their village folks thru relative's introduction:rolleyes: Haha!

Hakkas have a variety of features, but I do have to say this, many Hakkas do not look like the other Chinese. And I hate to say this as I have been grilled several times in the past, many Hakkas have Caucasian strain, and some are very apparent, others less so. Some people say Hakkas are better looking too, this could be it!

The men are uually broad shoulder and tall, and have a well proportional physique, same thing with the women, and this is very common among Caucasians as well. I noticed many Hakkas girls have the body of White girls. It's true, usually have fuller body, nice figure, not like the typical skinny flat Chinese girl.

I have golden brown hair, and thick eyebrows that almost meet in the center. Also have eyebrow ridges too which is typical of Hakka. I have several uncles, all of them at least 6 feet tall, also typical of Hakka.

Our behavior is also different, I think we are more honorable, hardworking and refined that the other Chinese. We were also rebellious too.

[DubT]

Hakkas have a variety of features, but I do have to say this, many Hakkas do not look like the other Chinese. And I hate to say this as I have been grilled several times in the past, many Hakkas have Caucasian strain, and some are very apparent, others less so. Some people say Hakkas are better looking too, this could be it!

I'm going to challenge your opinion. What you're saying can be turned around and be put as, "Cantonese do not look like Hakka". It's a two way street. Or are you saying all other sub groups of the Han ethnicity all look alike (with the exception of Hakkas)??? It might be a unique feature in your own lineage whereas at one point there was an intermarriage with Caucasians. But to my understanding Hakkas are very conservative and so I do not see Hakkas assimilate with Caucasians. I've also read that Hakka dialect is possibly one of the oldest dialects - poems dating back to 600 BC and when read in Hakka it rhymes, but do not rhyme when read in another dialect (e.g. Mandarin, Cantonese). For those who do not know, Hakka dialect is mutual intelligible with Cantonese (I would bet a person speaking in Hakka dialect and a person speaking in Cantonese dialect could have a basic dialogue with their own native tounge), but not so much with Mandarin. I grew up watching Hong Kong movies and was able to understand the Cantonese dialect due to its closeness to Hakka. I've struggled with Mandarin though.

The men are uually broad shoulder and tall, and have a well proportional physique, same thing with the women, and this is very common among Caucasians as well. I noticed many Hakkas girls have the body of White girls. It's true, usually have fuller body, nice figure, not like the typical skinny flat Chinese girl.

Again this may just pertain to your family lineage. However, I am Hakka (father is Hakka, mother is Teochew and my Chinese native tounge is Hakka dialect) and I have a "football/hockey player's" physique - standing 6' tall with a wide frame/broad shoulders weighing in at 220lbs. Ironically both my parents are petite standing only 5'3. I've been told that I got my height from my maternal grandfather. Thus, technically I did not inherit my height from my Hakka side. I do believe I got the wide frame from my father side though.

I have golden brown hair, and thick eyebrows that almost meet in the center. Also have eyebrow ridges too which is typical of Hakka. I have several uncles, all of them at least 6 feet tall, also typical of Hakka.

Our behavior is also different, I think we are more honorable, hardworking and refined that the other Chinese. We were also rebellious too.

I have yet to see a picture of a Chinese, or Hakka for that matter, claiming golden brown hair as I'm not quite able to picture it. My hair was "lighter" as an infant, but I do not think this only pertains to Hakka people. My eye browes are not narrow and do not meet anywhere near the center and they're very much raised above my eyes. I don't have any creased eye lids either which is indisputably a common trait in most East/South East Asians. Also, I don't think Hakka are more tanned than other Han Chinese, like another member said it's purely due to the geographical location they reside. I'm very fair skinned, both my parents are too. But we (my family that is) get easily tanned under the sun.

And yes Hakka are very conservative and honorable. I believe Hakka were traditionally farmers, but after settling in South East China they were discriminated against by the Puntis and usually got the left over land that wasn't as fertile as their peers. Because of this a lot of Hakka started shifting into public service and the military - basically politics - and culturally emphasized on education. This in turn explains the numerous Rebellions lead by a Hakka (e.g. Taiping Rebellion). Also after Qing Dynasty fell, and Kuomingtang and the Chinese Communists started to gain popularity, there were several Hakka leaders on both sides, notably Sun Yatsen (Nationalist party) who's thought of as being the founding father of modern China and was the first President of ROC (Taiwan). Xue Yue, also of Hakka descent, was one of the top generals for Chiang Kai-Shek (Generalissimo who in turn answered to Sun Yatsen until Sun's death). Xue Yue was responsible for almost annihilating the Communists and chased them out 12,000 miles North/North West of China. He was even regarded as "Patton of Asia". Current President of ROC is Hakka, and as been said there were others in the past (excluding Sun Yatsen) who were Presidents and of Hakka descent.

Several famous and notable people in Hong Kong film industry are Hakka as well (Chow Yun Fat, Leslie Cheung, Michael (Wai-Man) Chan, Cherie Chung, Eric Tsang, Raymond Chow).

All in all, little to my knowledge until a few days ago when I decided to look up my heritage, Hakka have had a great influence, and still do, on modern and ancient China.

Edited by DubT, 03 November 2009 - 11:56 PM.

[qrasy]

I'm going to challenge your opinion. What you're saying can be turned around and be put as, "Cantonese do not look like Hakka". It's a two way street. Or are you saying all other sub groups of the Han ethnicity all look alike (with the exception of Hakkas)???

If you know his other posts, then you will see "irregularities" in his opinion.
A few of his other posts showed that he could hardly distinguish Uighur from "Guangdong populations" (i.e. Cantonese, Taishanese and Hakka), while at the same time he claimed that the "Guangdong" populations (including Hakka) to have "Caucasian" feature. It's quite unlike a person that had lived inside a Chinese community.
Though a forummer's nickname might be quite different from what he truly is.

I think that average Hakka just have no real special look.

I've also read that Hakka dialect is possibly one of the oldest dialects - poems dating back to 600 BC and when read in Hakka it rhymes, but do not rhyme when read in another dialect (e.g. Mandarin, Cantonese).

Rhyming is one thing, but being close to ancient Chinese involves a lot of other features.
Actually there are no single modern Chinese dialect that has been found to be close enough to Ancient Chinese (as found Han and before).

For those who do not know, Hakka dialect is mutual intelligible with Cantonese (I would bet a person speaking in Hakka dialect and a person speaking in Cantonese dialect could have a basic dialogue with their own native tounge), but not so much with Mandarin. I grew up watching Hong Kong movies and was able to understand the Cantonese dialect due to its closeness to Hakka. I've struggled with Mandarin though.

Hakka's mutual intelligibility with Standard Cantonese is probably like 10% (I am referring to those who had not had contact with the other language until they grow up), which is not very good. But when things like subtitles are added, things are a lot easier, though.
And learning about the "transformation rules" may be a bit simpler from Cantonese to Hakka.

I have yet to see a picture of a Chinese, or Hakka for that matter, claiming golden brown hair as I'm not quite able to picture it.

I have seen a number of albino Chinese people, and they indeed have golden hair and pink skin.
But most people will consider those as "genetic defects".

I don't have any creased eye lids either which is indisputably a common trait in most East/South East Asians.

Not sure what you are referring to by "creased". Maybe a few googled pictures of Hakka can show us what you mean. My eyes are so "small" you cannot really find folding of eyelids when I open my eyes. Even if I try to make it bigger, the eyelids still look quite "smooth".
[compare an European eye in http://wwwdelivery.s...60R-2056558.jpg where there's a clearly visible "folding above eyelid", and an Asian eyelid where you can't see the "folding above": http://upload.wikime...canthicfold.JPG (though you can see folding on the left and right instead, as it's a close-up). What usually called "double eyelid of Asians" is some kind of "folding on the eyelid that doesn't look clear from a distance". In http://www2.tyccc.go...il.asp?KeyID=36 even in the closest-up picture you can hardly see any "top folding".]
And I am not sure if "Far Southeast" Asians may have that as a common feature.

Edited by qrasy, 04 November 2009 - 08:29 AM.

[DubT]

Rhyming is one thing, but being close to ancient Chinese involves a lot of other features.
Actually there are no single modern Chinese dialect that has been found to be close enough to Ancient Chinese (as found Han and before).

I've read this while skimming through two different sites. It could be false information, I never looked at the references. But the argument was that Hakka dialect is old and conservative and they used the poems to date back how old a dialect is. These are not regular poems but follow certain rules, as explained on the web sites. Again, could just be total hoax.

I have seen a number of albino Chinese people, and they indeed have golden hair and pink skin.
But most people will consider those as "genetic defects".

Albinos do not have golden hair, they have white hair. It can be called a "genetic defect", ora simple mutation that can happen in all races.

Not sure what you are referring to by "creased". Maybe a few googled pictures of Hakka can show us what you mean. My eyes are so "small" you cannot really find folding of eyelids when I open my eyes. Even if I try to make it bigger, the eyelids still look quite "smooth".
And I am not sure if "Far Southeast" Asians may have that as a common feature.

When I said "creased" I was referring to the eye lids. There's a common surgery in Korea where females get the skin above the eye creased in order to make it resemble eye lids.

Edited by DubT, 04 November 2009 - 01:56 PM.

[qrasy]

I've read this while skimming through two different sites. It could be false information, I never looked at the references. But the argument was that Hakka dialect is old and conservative and they used the poems to date back how old a dialect is. These are not regular poems but follow certain rules, as explained on the web sites. Again, could just be total hoax.

May not be totally baseless, but we simply cannot ignore the features other than the rhymes when we want to judge the closeness.
For example, the initial consonants and the ancient spoken grammar cannot be seen in the rhyming patterns.

Albinos do not have golden hair, they have white hair. It can be called a "genetic defect", ora simple mutation that can happen in all races.

Well, at least two among those I saw actually have the hair not really white, it's a bit golden though maybe it's not too "strong" color compared to the Europeans.

When I said "creased" I was referring to the eye lids. There's a common surgery in Korea where females get the skin above the eye creased in order to make it resemble eye lids.

As you mention "eyelid surgery" I guess you are referring to the change from "single eyelid" to "double eyelid".
Originally "very smooth" eyelids even when fully opened, then after the operation you can see "apparent folding".

Actually Single Eyelid is more "Northern" feature. Not having it should mean like you have the genes from the North "fully expressed" (instead of only partially like in "double eyelid". When there's no or nearly no expression of this, it should be like the European eyes I posted)

Edited by qrasy, 07 November 2009 - 04:54 AM.

[bloodmerchant]

If anything, Hakka is more closely related to Gan, especially the Hakka dialects of southern Jiangxi province. It's just that the Hakka are just almost geographically split between several provinces.

[Soi]

My mom is hakka from Vietnam. My grandfather and his brothers were all at least 6ft tall and fair skinned. My mom is 5'7 and I'm 5'8. Some of us have black-brown hair. One of my mom's cousin has golden-brown hair and she's a pure-bred hakka.

[Trimac20]

Isn't Lee Kwan Yew Hakka? He looks more Northern Chinese to me. I could believe some have golden hair if they came from Northern China, since I've heard Hmong/Miao are from northern China and they too can have brown even blonde hair.