75 replies to this topic

[Wu Zetian]

I think "Han Wu Da Di" starring Chen Bao Guo is MUCH MUCH better than "Da Han Tian Zi". I am currently watching both series on the Chinese cable TV that we have, and Han Wu Da Di is much more historically accurate and better filmed than Da Han Tian Zi. The background settings were much more impressive, and the costumes (though less colorful), were more accurate and of a higher quality than the ones in Da Han Tian Zi.

The feeling I get when watching Da Han Tian Zi is that they are trying to take the story of Han WuDi and add lots of interesting stories and twists to it, which, while it makes good TV, is not very useful if you want to understand the history more.

I highly recommend "Han Wu Da Di".

BTW, does anyone have any pics of Huo Qubing from Han Wu Da Di ??

[Hanqing]

Just finished watching the whole series of "Han Wu Da Di". Excellent show. And almost everyone acted so well.

But it is sooooooooooo long....

Actually I got quite disgusted with Han Wudi towards the end. But I guess that was him.

My favourite: Wei Qing! 卫青!

[jiangji]

For more review on "Han Wu da di", look at the comment from people daily online. It is the most expensive drama in china. I do agree with them there are too many drama that set during the Qing dynasty. Its time for them to make some drama based on Tang or Ming dynasty.

http://english.peopl...202_172639.html

Edited by jiangji, 18 June 2005 - 01:36 AM.

[tieu_yeu_nu]

since thien tu dai han is focused on han vu de's early part of life would thien tu dai han 2 be based aroundt he same time as han vu dai de? or would thien tu dai han 3 be the same as han vu dai de?

[.:天子:.]

楚汉骄雄 - Chu Han Jiao Xiong



Cantonese but it has been translated to mandarin.

[jiangji]

楚汉骄雄 - Chu Han Jiao Xiong



Cantonese but it has been translated to mandarin.

It's very a good drama series and I finish watching it in just 3 days. However, it is not that historical accurate.

[fragrant swallow]

You might have to wait for a few months before you can buy in US. It's still not even available in Singapore, where I live. I think, you can only buy it in China now.  Try the internet to see if you can order it.

The Hanwu Dadi not only depicts the story of Han Wudi (Liu Che), but also Han Jindi (Liu Qi), who is the father of Han Wudi. The show has many military battle scene (including XiongNu and Han cavalry),  chinese court scene, hanfu etc.

You can download a preview clip here:

Just right click to download the clip

http://www.zokegd.co...45813820174.wmv

General Zhaoyun, Han Wu Da Di just started on Sat 9 July over Sg cable tv ch 55 (every Sat 8pm to 10pm). However I am so disappointed as it comes only with traditional chinese sub titles, no English. I need help to understand the drama better. Any suggestions please? Or do you think we can start a discussion forum on this? Thanks

[General_Zhaoyun]

General Zhaoyun, Han Wu Da Di just started on Sat 9 July over Sg cable tv ch 55 (every Sat 8pm to 10pm). However I am so disappointed as it comes only with traditional chinese sub titles, no English. I need help to understand the drama better. Any suggestions please? Or do you think we can start a discussion forum on this? Thanks

Sorry, Fragrant swallow, are you a non-chinese speaker and you can't read chinese?

Yeah, it doesn't have any english subtitles. And if you can't read chinese, you would have problems understanding it.

I actually have no problems watching Han Wu Da Di (I've got the DVD of it), as my chinese is quite good. Yeah, some part of the languages spoken in the film are in classical chinese, just like Romance of 3 kingdoms, and chances are that if you don't read chinese books (esp. chinese history texts) alot, you will have problems understanding what's spoken.

For instance, there are some scenes where there are several quotes about confucianism, legalism, taoism, chinese military strategy etc. and they are in classical chinese (wenyanwen 文言文), and if you have not learnt classical chinese before or read ancient chinese text before, you will probably have difficulty understanding them.

In the show, you will see many historical figures such as :

Han Jindi (汉景帝) - Han Wudi's father
Han Wudi (汉武帝) - Han Emperor , main figure in the show
Dou Taihou (窦太后) - Han Wudi's Grandmother
Zhou Yafu (周亚夫) - Han General who suppressed the "rebellion of 7 kingdoms 七国之乱"
Dou Yin (窦婴) - one of the high official of Han Wudi
Tian Fen (田蚡) - prime minister of Han Wudi, uncle of Han Wudi, who got corrupt or mad
Sima Qian (司马迁) - the famous han historian who wrote "Shiji 史记 "
Wei Qin 卫青 - The Han General
Huo Qubing 霍去病- Han General
Zhang Tang 张汤 - Judicial Inspector
Yi Zhixie (chinese ??) - XiongNu Chanyu (单于) or chieftain/king
Dong Zhongshu 董仲舒 - Famous Confucius Scholar during Han period


Some imperial/bureucratic/military titles terms you might not be familiar with (if you're a beginner in chinese history):

Ting Wei 廷尉 - Han Judicial/Legal Court
Tai Wei 太尉 - Grand Marshal (highest military general)
Da Jiangjun 大将军 - Great General (higher than Tai Wei)
Tai Shiling 太史令 - Imperial historian/astrologist
Piaoji Jiangjun 骠骑将军 - Cavalry General
Cheji Jiangjun 车骑将军 - Chariot General
Mojiang 末将 (??pls correct the chinese character if wrong) - "Secondary" or "lower-rank" General, commonly spoken when a lower general is talking to a higher rank general (e.g. 末将在...at your command..)

Some common philosophical term you might encounter in the show:

"Tianren Ganyin 天人感应" or "Tianren Sanche 天人三策" - "The Heaven-Man Reaction" or "The 3 Plans of Heaven-Man". This is a famous philosophical theory put forth by Dong Zhongshu, the leading confucian philosopher during Han Wudi's time. Basically, this philosophy dictates that the emperor is ordained by mandate of heaven to rule the empire, and if the emperor is not benevolent or rule the empire poorly, he will be punished by the heaven. If the emperor rules well, the heaven will indicate some signs to reward the emperor.

"Fashu (法术)" - Legalism term that means "law and strategym method". Basically, a legalism philosophy put forth by Han Feizi during warring states period. He basically stresses "Fa 法" (law) as the basis to control the people, "Shu 术" (method) to control the bureaucrats, as "Quan 权" (power) which should be consolidated by the emperor to put all people under him. All these were the basis of 2000 years of centralised autocracy in China. Han Wudi was highly influenced by Legalism.

"Zhali (诈力)" - meaning "deception power". Commonly used in ancient chinese art of war.

If you have further problems understanding the show, you can post your question here..

[fragrant swallow]

Sorry, Fragrant swallow, are you a non-chinese speaker and you can't read chinese?

Yeah, it doesn't have any english subtitles. And if you can't read chinese, you would have problems understanding it.


If you have further problems understanding the show, you can post your question here..

Thank you so much for the background info. I am Chinese, ex-Malaysian educated in English medium and took up Mandarin (of course simplified chinese) in recent years on part-time basis, still on going. My Chinese teacher (native mainland Chinese ) has inspired me to be interested in all things chinese but my level of interest to understand history and culture surpasses my language ability to read them in chinese. I am aware of my limitations and am prepared to absorb only as much as I can.

I just returned from trip to Silk Road and was told by tour guide on this series; hence my earnest interest. My questions are as follows:
1. what is the meaning of xuefan 削藩 repeatedly mentioned?
2. At that time, there are other countries such as chu yan and liang guo 楚燕梁 and are they ruled by siblings of the Emperor eg younger brother as king of liang country?

I have been trying to source for info and found this website which I stumbled upon before several months back. Thanks.

[snowybeagle]

1. what is the meaning of xuefan 削藩 repeatedly mentioned?

It means to withdraw the land-holdings (and feudal titles) of the enfeoffed nobles/royalties, the territories being repossessed by the Emperor and placed under the bureaucracy of the Imperial Court (nationalisation).

削 - to remove.
藩 - land boundaries.

The first Emperor of the Han Dynasty enfeoffed his many sons titles of princes (王 wáng), conferring them autonomous territories all over the country in order to strengthen the control of the Imperial family over the vast realms against the feudal lords and other potential challengers who incite separatism or revival of the ancient feudalism of Zhou.

At that time, the idea of the empire being ruled and administered by central bureaucracy was still new, though it was practiced widely by the State of Qin. Most commoners identified with their own regions rather than the Empire, and many ambitious men wanted to carve out their own turfs, making the Emperor a mere High King over a confederation rather than an absolute ruler.

As time passed, gradually, more people accepted the demise of feudalism and the orthodoxy of the Liu family as the ruling clan.

However, new problems arose for subsequent Emperors when these Imperial princes' asserted their own autonomy or independence against the Imperial Court and Emperor's rule, relying on their sizable land-holdings to provide them with resources to build strong armies loyal to themselves rather than to the Imperial Court, even though they all belonged to the same Imperial clan of Liu.

To end these threats, the Emperor decided to either strip the princes of their territories directly, OR for some, to weaken them by making it mandatory for the Imperial princes to divide their lands equally among all their sons - thus avoid arousing their rebellion but over time, repossessed their lands when they were too weak to resist.

[General_Zhaoyun]

1. what is the meaning of xuefan 削藩 repeatedly mentioned?

Snowybeagle has already explained what it means by "Xuefan" as well as the method. Basically, the disadvantage of feudalism (i.e. granting fiefdom to the princes) is that the power of these princes can grow stronger than the emperor himself, as they become more autonomous. To eliminate threat from these princes and consolidate the central power of the court, the emperor would normally need to carry out "xuefan" to either eliminate these power and decrease their power.

If "xuefan" is successful, power will be centralised and consolidated onto the hand of the emperor. If it fails, it would result in the emperor losing the power, being ousted from his throne.

2. At that time, there are other countries such as chu yan and liang guo 楚燕梁 and are they ruled by siblings of the Emperor eg younger brother as king of liang country?

It depends. Some feudal territories are ruled by the direct sibling of the emperor. For e.g. Liang Wang 梁王 is the brother of Han Jindi 汉景帝 and uncle of Han Wudi 汉武, and he ruled a territory. Other territories are ruled by the indirect relatives of the emperor (not from the same father of the emperor). Ultimately, these indirect relatives became disloyal to the emperor and staged rebellion.

[General_Zhaoyun]

You might be interested to learn the so-called "Tui Eng Ling 推恩令" (the command of passing merits) initiated by Han Wudi as a "Xuefan" scheme, aimed at consolidating his centralised power.

Basically, this policy acted in a somewhat ingenious way. By order from the emperor, the sons of the princes will inherit/ parts of the land currently governed by the prince. The descendents of the "sons of the princes" will inturn inherit parts of the land governed by the sons of the princes and so on.. and this goes on forever. In general, the lands governed by the princes will be sub-divided into sub-lands governed by their sons, and these sub-lands will in the future be sub-divided into lands governed by the 'son' of the 'sons of these princes'...so the land owned by feudal lords became smaller and smaller, until their power is really weak.

On the outer appearance, the emperor seems to 'give merits' to his relatives by allowing them to own/rule some lands. In the actual sense, he's weakening their power.

After Tui Eng Ling was introduced, Han Wudi's power was consolidated greatly onto his hand.

[fragrant swallow]

General Zhaoyun, Snowybeagle, Thank you so much for your detailed explanation, much appreciated. I will be able to appreciate the show better now. I hope the rest who read this will be motivated to watch the Han Wu Da Di series, especially the Singapore-based members.

I will do some reading up before this Sat on the synopsis for the next 2 episodes

[jiangweibaoye]

Does anybody have any idea when or if they are going to release Han Wu Da Di with English Translation. I am dying to see it, but without subtitles it is problematic.

Should have put a better effort in my Mandarin studies.

Jiangweibaoye