141 replies to this topic

[snowybeagle]

Found this website and some. http://modelminority.com

Got one particularly funny article in http://modelminority...rticle1069.html

[somechineseperson]

Found this website and some. http://modelminority.com

Got one particularly funny article in http://modelminority...rticle1069.html

No, it is not "funny". You south-east Asian Chinese people do not understand the situation in Anglo-Saxon countries such as America.

[snowybeagle]

No, it is not "funny". You south-east Asian Chinese people do not understand the situation in Anglo-Saxon countries such as America.

No, I suppose we do not.
Why do you think it is not funny?

[somechineseperson]

No, I suppose we do not.
Why do you think it is not funny?

Because in Anglo-Saxon countries, the disparity between AM-WF and WM-AF inter-racial relationships is a serious issue.

I am an egalitarian when it comes to these matters. I want to see equality in results, not just the so-called "equal opportunities", which often is just a hypocritical slogan. When there is a significant disparity in the results, then something is wrong, it is as simple as that.

I don't know about other Western countries, but perhaps in mainland Europe the situation is much better.

This whole issue is also linked to orientalism, which I am very against.

Edited by somechineseperson, 08 May 2006 - 11:32 AM.

[snowybeagle]

Right, but at the end of the day, shouldn't interpersonal relationship be a matter of personal choices rather than something we can demand as a form of demographical results?

We can't compare it with demographics of ethnic groups and academic performances, and then attribute results due to economic disadvantages of ethnic minorities and seek to address the problem in the same approach, can we?

[somechineseperson]

Right, but at the end of the day, shouldn't interpersonal relationship be a matter of personal choices rather than something we can demand as a form of demographical results?

We can't compare it with demographics of ethnic groups and academic performances, and then attribute results due to economic disadvantages of ethnic minorities and seek to address the problem in the same approach, can we?

Oh yes we can, not to economical disadvantages as such, but to disadvantages with regard to portrayal in the media and other factors. (Such as the ideology of orientalism)

As for "personal choice", it is only in an egalitarian system that personal choices can truly be personal and truly be respected.

An Asian guy who prefers white girls over Asian girls would in general encounter much more social and cultural friction and obstacles in his pursuit of white women than an Asian girl who prefers white guys would in her pursuit of white men. This is where the inequality lies.

When there is a significant demographic disparity, there is almost always an underlying inequality. Because logic dictates that if everything is equal and left to random chance alone, statistically speaking a significant demographic disparity should not exist.

Or consider the following logical deduction:

1. All races are intrinsically equal.
2. In a perfectly egalitarian society race is not a statistically significant factor affecting personal choice.
3. In such a society by the law of statistics one cannot have a statistically significant demographic disparity with respect to race.
4. But there does exist a statistically significant demographic disparity with respect to race.
5. Therefore society cannot be egalitarian. (In other words, there is an underlying inequality)

Edited by somechineseperson, 08 May 2006 - 02:50 PM.

[urofpersia]

Found this website and some. http://modelminority.com

Got one particularly funny article in http://modelminority...rticle1069.html

Yup, pretty funny, diidn't really like her style of writing but by the time I got the the ad she posted and the replies she got ("I like your ad and what it says. I’m Asian, let’s go out.") I was cracking up.

[somechineseperson]

Interracial marriage statistics in America:

Asian Indians

Husbands
Asian Indians 89.7%
Other Asians 1.5%
Whites 6.3%
Blacks 0.6%
Hispanics/Latinos 1.4%

Wives
Asian Indians 92.0%
Other Asians 1.2%
Whites 4.1%
Blacks 0.7%
Hispanics/Latinos 0.8%

Chinese

Husbands
Chinese 89.5%
Other Asians 4.1%
Whites 5.1%
Blacks 0.1%
Hispanics/Latinos 1.1%

Wives
Chinese 83.0%
Other Asians 3.3%
Whites 12.0%
Blacks 0.3%
Hispanics/Latinos 1.0%

Filipinos

Husbands
Filipinos 83.1%
Other Asians 2.5%
Whites 10.1%
Blacks 0.2%
Hispanics/Latinos 3.3%

Wives
Filipinos 62.7%
Other Asians 2.7%
Whites 27.3%
Blacks 2.8%
Hispanics/Latinos 3.9%

Japanese

Husbands
Japanese 69.2%
Other Asians 8.8%
Whites 17.5%
Blacks 0.3%
Hispanics/Latinos 2.7%

Wives
Japanese 50.9%
Other Asians 5.4%
Whites 37.1%
Blacks 1.7%
Hispanics/Latinos 2.4%

Koreans

Husbands
Koreans 93.1%
Other Asians 1.9%
Whites 3.9%
Blacks 0.0%
Hispanics/Latinos 0.9%

Wives
Koreans 69.4%
Other Asians 2.8%
Whites 24.3%
Blacks 1.7%
Hispanics/Latinos 1.4%

Vietnamese

Husbands
Vietnamese 92.4%
Other Asians 3.7%
Whites 2.7%
Blacks 0.1%
Hispanics/Latinos 1.1%

Wives
Vietnamese 86.4%
Other Asians 3.3%
Whites 9.0%
Blacks 0.3%
Hispanics/Latinos 1.0%

Source: http://www.asian-nat...terracial.shtml

[somechineseperson]

For more detailed statistics, please refer to http://www.proudasia...0TableIndex.htm

The disparity is clearly statistically significant. This is mathematical proof that equality does not exist in this issue. (In America, at least)

[Minty]

As with any interracial couple, the Asian women/European men pair has its portion of stereotypes. I have heard and read about these assorted stereotypes from the Europeans’ side and the Asians’ side. It is pathetic I suppose, but it can likewise be neat to resist damaging stereotypes. For instance, a European decent man with an Asian woman is frequently stereotyped as having a “little instrument” that he can't intimately gratify a white woman. Or that he is solely into the Asian woman for her compliance and sexed charm. Also the Asian woman can get stereotyped as being regarded too unappealing for Asian men, thus having to be with a European descendent male. Or, another absurd (though sometime accurate, I guess) belief made is that the Asian woman experiences outclassed and detests being Asian, and is with the European descendent man to advance her self-respect and to experience as white as possible

There is also this rumour that it's more scowled upon by Asians for an Asian man to go outside of his race, than for an Asian woman.

[somechineseperson]

As with any interracial couple, the Asian women/European men pair has its portion of stereotypes. I have heard and read about these assorted stereotypes from the Europeans’ side and the Asians’ side. It is pathetic I suppose, but it can likewise be neat to resist damaging stereotypes. For instance, a European decent man with an Asian woman is frequently stereotyped as having a “little instrument” that he can't intimately gratify a white woman. Or that he is solely into the Asian woman for her compliance and sexed charm. Also the Asian woman can get stereotyped as being regarded too unappealing for Asian men, thus having to be with a European descendent male. Or, another absurd (though sometime accurate, I guess) belief made is that the Asian woman experiences outclassed and detests being Asian, and is with the European descendent man to advance her self-respect and to experience as white as possible

There is also this rumour that it's more scowled upon by Asians for an Asian man to go outside of his race, than for an Asian woman.

I do not start my consideration of this issue from rumors of stereotypes, but from objective statistical facts. The objective fact is that there does exist a statistically significant disparity. Therefore there must be a non-random explanation for this disparity. In addition, this disparity is mathematical proof that American society is not equal.

Edited by somechineseperson, 08 May 2006 - 05:04 PM.

[snowybeagle]

As for "personal choice", it is only in an egalitarian system that personal choices can truly be personal and truly be respected.

Do you realise how your statement sounded?

You're saying that ethnic-Asian ladies like my neighbour, my schoolmates, my Bible Study group mates (yeah, I know such individuals personally, for years) do not deserve to have their choices - of marrying their husbands who were white guys from UK, USA, Norway, Australia and NZ - respected, and that their choices are not really personal choices.

When there is a significant demographic disparity, there is almost always an underlying inequality. Because logic dictates that if everything is equal and left to random chance alone, statistically speaking a significant demographic disparity should not exist.

On what basis do you expect this type of equality?

There's more people wanting to migrate from China to the US than vice versa - this is an inequality.
There's more males than females in engineering field - this is also an inequality.

Sure, there's an inequality. But where personal relationships are concerned, you're veering into an area of individual's preference and choice.

Asian husbands and Caucasian wives are a rarity, but that could well mean most Asian husbands prefer Asian wives in the first place.

I got friends and neighbours who fit the profiles of Asian husbands and Caucasian wives too - again, it was very much a matter of personal choices.

Perhaps, until the recent past, some Asian women revel in their being sought after as trophies by White guys.
If the lady who wrote the article is an indication, more Asian women are wising up.

But just because they learn not to be mere trophies for White guys don't mean they'll return to traditional choice of Asian guys.

From what I read from other articles, hey, you gotta help yourself where image is concerned.
Some Asian American guys are making their own TV programs etc., to project the image of themselves - with that kind of confidence and attitude, I'll think they would go far in their relationships with women, regardless of the ethnicity of the ladies.

[somechineseperson]

Do you realise how your statement sounded?

You're saying that ethnic-Asian ladies like my neighbour, my schoolmates, my Bible Study group mates (yeah, I know such individuals personally, for years) do not deserve to have their choices - of marrying their husbands who were white guys from UK, USA, Norway, Australia and NZ - respected, and that their choices are not really personal choices.

Personal choices are never completely "personal". The very concept of the "individual" is strictly speaking a philosophical construction. What are called personal choices are significantly affected by stereotypes often portrayed in the media. To give you an example, on the CHF forum Lady Mok once said she prefers white guys because she thought negatively of Asian guys. Such a "personal choice" is frankly based on a racist view of Asian guys in general which is insulting.

See: http://www.chinahist...?showtopic=3195

"I think I like Caucasian guys because they're definitely more romantic and are more able to express their emotions, and are more open to ideas of gender equality, whereas sometimes Asian guys may have been brought up chauvinistic and not a little spoiled by their mummies."

When there is no true equality, there is no true freedom. This is one reason why one can never have true freedom in a capitalist system, where huge inequality exists.

On what basis do you expect this type of equality?

Why should inequality instead of equality be the default position in this issue? I should ask you instead: Why should anyone expect any inequality in the first place?

There's more people wanting to migrate from China to the US than vice versa - this is an inequality.
There's more males than females in engineering field - this is also an inequality.

Sure, there's an inequality. But where personal relationships are concerned, you're veering into an area of individual's preference and choice.

But this is clearly not primarily a matter of individual preference and choice anymore. If it were all due to "free" choice, one would not expect there to be any statistically significant disparity. Why don't you stop avoiding the issue and actually address the underlying cause of inequality?

Asian husbands and Caucasian wives are a rarity, but that could well mean most Asian husbands prefer Asian wives in the first place.

That's hardly the reason. The real reason is that in Anglo-Saxon countries, as far as dating is concerned, Asian men are severely disadvantaged, due to negative stereotypes in the media, just as Black people are disadvantaged in the academia.

I got friends and neighbours who fit the profiles of Asian husbands and Caucasian wives too - again, it was very much a matter of personal choices.

I don't care about individual cases, only the overall statistic.

Perhaps, until the recent past, some Asian women revel in their being sought after as trophies by White guys.
If the lady who wrote the article is an indication, more Asian women are wising up.

But just because they learn not to be mere trophies for White guys don't mean they'll return to traditional choice of Asian guys.

I can tell you such attitudes still abound. I suggest you read some threads in the Model Minority forum.

From what I read from other articles, hey, you gotta help yourself where image is concerned.
Some Asian American guys are making their own TV programs etc., to project the image of themselves - with that kind of confidence and attitude, I'll think they would go far in their relationships with women, regardless of the ethnicity of the ladies.

I am not even concerned with personal issues here, but the existence of the disparity as a social problem. This is not about "confidence" or "attitude", but the existence of a fundamental inequality in this area. Until that inequality is addressed, the issue will not be resolved.

Also, your point of view is wrong. When there is a group of oppressed and disadvantaged people in a society, it is against the principle of justice for you to blame the problem on them (e.g. lack of confidence, not helping oneself enough, etc) instead of addressing the underlying inequality they are suffering. You sound as if the real reason is that Asian men are simply not confident enough, this is frankly an insult.

When someone suffering from an underlying inequality complains about it, he or she has a RIGHT to do so, and it is an insult for another person to explicitly or implicitly place the blame on him or her for this inequality.

I guess a girl never told you things like "I cannot go out with you because you are Chinese".

The Golden Rule of Ethics states that one should treat another person as himself/herself. Try to put yourself into the shoes of a person who suffers from this sort of inequality and discrimination.

Edited by somechineseperson, 11 May 2006 - 08:38 AM.

[snowybeagle]

Personal choices are never completely "personal". The very concept of the "individual" is strictly speaking a philosophical construction. What are called personal choices are significantly affected by stereotypes often portrayed in the media. To give you an example, on the CHF forum Lady Mok once said she prefers white guys because she thought negatively of Asian guys. Such a "personal choice" is frankly based on a racist view of Asian guys in general which is insulting.

And so what? What do you want to do? Send her for re-education?

I find your question to be ridiculous. Why should inequality instead of equality be the default position in this issue? I should ask you instead: Why should anyone expect any inequality in the first place?

No one owes any one else in this world.
Everyone can demand, not everyone is willing to meet that demand.
Haven't you heard? This is a fallen world, an imperfect world.

If we demand something, we should be ready to do our own part to make it happen.

Why don't you stop avoiding the issue and actually address the underlying cause of inequality?

I don't avoid the issue, I just see it with a very different mindset and different perspective from you.
Don't demand me to conform to *your* views of the world. I don't owe that to you.

I don't care about individual cases, only the overall statistic.

And how does overall statistics come about?

Also, your point of view is wrong. When there is a group of oppressed and disadvantaged people in a society, it is against the principle of justice for you to blame the problem on them (e.g. lack of confidence, not helping oneself enough, etc) instead of addressing the underlying inequality they are suffering. You sound as if the real reason is that Asian men are simply not confident enough, this is frankly an insult.

I am not saying Asian men are not confident enough.
I know of enough Asian men who are quite confident and got no issues with this.
But those Asian men who do have an issue, they're the ones who seem to have confidence problem.

I guess a girl never told you things like "I cannot go out with you because you are Chinese".

Nope, never happened to me.
Though married to an Asian woman now, did do some datings before with non-Asians, whites too if you must know.
I must have been smart enough to get to know a girl better before dating her - such as feeling and crossing her out if she's daft enough to think negative stereotypes of Asian men.

The Golden Rule of Ethics states that one should treat another person as himself/herself. Try to put yourself into the shoes of a person who suffers from this sort of inequality and discrimination.

I'll side with those who faced discrimination at the workplace, in schools, in the malls etc.

But where dating is concerned, it's really up to individuals to make their own choices.


Why don't you answer some questions instead?

Have you tried asking a white girl out?
Do you seek to know a girl better before asking her out?
Do you prefer to go out with a bimbo or a smarter one?
Do you want to date a shallow girl?

[wuTao]

Because in Anglo-Saxon countries, the disparity between AM-WF and WM-AF inter-racial relationships is a serious issue.

I am an egalitarian when it comes to these matters. I want to see equality in results, not just the so-called "equal opportunities", which often is just a hypocritical slogan. When there is a significant disparity in the results, then something is wrong, it is as simple as that.

I don't know about other Western countries, but perhaps in mainland Europe the situation is much better.

This whole issue is also linked to orientalism, which I am very against.

Why is this such a serious issue? And why is it that you seem to have such an obesession with Caucasian females? If you are such a egalitarian, why are you not also railing about the disparity between Chinese males and African-American female couplings? According to your statistics, black males get married to Chinese females at a frequency of 3 times more than the opposite pairing. This is a greater disparity in terms of ratios than the Asian/Caucasian case. In fact, if you believe so much in equal opportunities, then you should also be upset that the percentage of Asian men who marry non-Asian, non-Caucasian women are so low. You should actually be more upset that Asian men are not getting (or giving) an opportunity to females who are not Asian or Caucasian.

I agree with snowybeagle. This is a matter of personal choice. You yourself are showing a personal bias by focusing on the disparity between the Asian/Caucasian case, although you seem to try to hide it by wrapping it in the aegis of "equal opportunities". It seems it's more of a case at you being upset at not having the statistics in favor of your own preference.