141 replies to this topic

[minotaar]

What you do not seem to understand is that in the case of a guy asking a girl for a date,
the girl has the ultimate power to decide without being answerable to anyone else.

You need to start reading our posts, instead of misunderstanding them and then yelling about something irrelevant. No one ever questioned dating protocol.

Race-based dating preferences ARE AN EXAMPLE OF RACISM. The boys decision to not ask out a girl, wholly or partially based on her race, is RACISM. The girls decision to accept or reject, WHICH SHE ANSWERS TO NO ONE EXCEPT HERSELF, if wholly or partially based on race, is RACISM. Coming from the boy or coming from the girl, all we are saying is that race-based preferences are RACISM.

No one is telling you who to date.
No one is questioning the dating protocol.
No one is talking about you or your friends specifically.
No one is demanding personal information.

All we are saying is that race-based dating preferences are examples of racism.

Now go back and re-read our posts and actually reply to them, not to something you make up in your head.

Edited by minotaar, 09 May 2006 - 11:01 PM.

[snowybeagle]

Race-based dating preferences ARE AN EXAMPLE OF RACISM. The boys decision to not ask out a girl, wholly or partially based on her race, is RACISM. The girls decision to accept or reject, WHICH SHE ANSWERS TO NO ONE EXCEPT HERSELF, if wholly or partially based on race, is RACISM. Coming from the boy or coming from the girl, all we are saying is that race-based preferences are RACISM.

No one is telling you who to date.
No one is questioning the dating protocol.
No one is talking about you or your friends specifically.
No one is demanding personal information.

All we are saying is that race-based dating preferences are examples of racism.

I hear you loud and clear and I am telling you that citing racism in this instance is barking up the wrong tree.

Or to put it another, it is a manifestation of culture of victimisation where it is someone's else fault except my own.

Rather than cry racism when a guy choose who to date based on race,
or cry racism when a girl choose to accept/reject a date based on race,
think deeper.

As pointed out, girls also reject guys based on other things, like he wears braces or appears too square or nerdy.

The most straight forward thing to do here is ditch that girl as being shallow, find someone who appreciates a person for character and other worthwhile attributes.

Or, one could cry out "nerdism" or whatever.
It would be ridiculous in this case.

Racism is a real monstrous institution that had plagued innocent victims for thousands of years.

Comparing victims of racism in history such as Rosa Parks to guys who got rejected for dates because of their race is the real insult.

Victims of racism like Rosa Parks are proud people, proud to be who they are, and assert themselves and stand up for their right to be treated as equals in the eye of the law, in access to public services and treatment in public places.

What do the so-called "victims" of racism in the dating scene want?
The right not to be denied for dates because of their race?

Don't confuse this with racism in image projection of ethnicities in the media.

If some of these guys with confidence problem need a TV star to show that being an Asian guy can be macho and cool and get the babes before they themselves can hook a date, they got deeper problems.

[Chow Yun-Fat, PhD]

How naive

Everyone is influenced by their environment. Currently, the American media is racist and reaches many parts of the world. In many parts of America there is contempt for and mocking of Chinese and Asians generally

Naturally in such a situation if the immigrant children are unfortunate enough to grow up in, they will have identity and esteem issues, no matter what they say and what fairytales are nice to believe

Many white people here in America seem to have a great need to aggrandize themselves; this is probably because America is all powerful, insular, and of course it is because those who wish to do so are mediocre.. a great many people are mediocre, it is the natural consequence of the law of averages

This will be true for all populations, and if they have low self-esteem, they may buy into the white racist Hollywood fantasy, and if they do so they may throw themselves at the magical media gods stepping straight out of the fairytale movies. Most people are not leaders, and average people may find difficulty in handling this if their local environment has not prepared them to do so

<2009: i can't believe i wrote all this c**p. sleep deprivation retarded my development. although valid points, i believe something more is at work here..>

Edited by Chow Yun-Fat, PhD, 27 January 2009 - 01:13 AM.

[Chow Yun-Fat, PhD]

<Foolish sleep deprived ranting. although the spirit is true>

Edited by Chow Yun-Fat, PhD, 27 January 2009 - 12:51 AM.

[MengTzu]

No, I suppose we do not.
Why do you think it is not funny?

SCP might be a bit reactionary here, but he's right in stating that articles on modelminority and other similar sites in fact aren't intended to be good laughs. Chinese living in Southeast Asia might in fact never quite understand this; in fact, I doubt if Chinese or Asians living anywhere else on the globe other than America and Canada can understand this. From I've heard, Chinese and other Asians do not face the same stereotypes as they do in North America, and I don't really blame it on the Anglo-Saxon element of America either -- my cousin (who is Chinese, of course,) dated White girls in England, while there is certainly a level of bias against Asian men dating White women in America.

Articles like this one is meant to be sarcastic humor; many of their writers are sometimes quite bitter, rather than just poking fun at the Asian experience. That being said, I do find these writers sometimes exaggerating and overly self-defeating.

[Chow Yun-Fat, PhD]

<same as previous post. o btw, BALLS lol!>

Edited by Chow Yun-Fat, PhD, 27 January 2009 - 12:52 AM.

[MengTzu]

This is naive. Dating for a guy is based most importantly on his behavior. The way he grows up greatly influences his behavior. Same for girls

The American media says that Asian guys are weird alien losers. If the girls know no better and are constantly bombarded with this image, with people who mock Asians, what will happen? If the guys know no better and are constantly bombarded with this iamge, with people who mock Asians, what will happen?

Grow some balls newb

Some people look good and some people don't. Many are losers. But there is a concerted effort aimed to emasculate the Asian community, led by dorky white people embroiled in their feverish masturbatory fantasies

Propaganda works. You need to get a clue

It's quite difficult to make people outside of North America, especially our Southeast Asian friends here, understand the remarkably subtle situation of the Asians in North America.

[MengTzu]

Let me tell you something. I look good, real good. d**** good. I look pretty fly. I had a g/f in kindergarten

So why is it that there could still be girls that mocked me for my race until puberty? (Even afterward with a few ugly girls, but, they're ugly, they'll naturally hate so it doesn't count ^^)

How could the random aggregate of newb dorky white guys automatically mock me, how could they try to challenge me?

I am a young strong man now with enormous balls. Such people are easy to dominate now, yes, but I should have dominated them always. I could have used some guidance as a kid. A lot of time has been wasted. A media backing me up would have helped enormously

And it would be the Natural Order. Yes.. the Master, on top
I don't read too many of the articles myself, I admit I'm not the literary type. Of course there are weenie boys here and there, such do not matter

I personally don't like to get involved in such whinning except when there is a truly academically serious discussion (like how media relates to self-image, that sort of theing.) I don't like to get involved precisely because it is whinny, and I find that as powerful as such media influence is, there are little things we can do to make big changes. I have great White friends, many of them White girls. I went to prom with a White girl. My experience doesn't match exactly always what these writers say. I figure, as time went by, that often differences are made by small changes on my part. A lot of White Americans are discouraged from making friends with non-Whites, especially Asians, because often time ethnic minorities (especially Asians) are very reserved and keep to themselves. Cultural tension has two sides. I do my part to improve the situation, and I can't care less what idiots decide to put on TV. Why should I feel bad for what isn't my fault, especially for stupid things that dumb people do?

Btw, please refrain from talking about "balls." I don't want this discussion dwindle out of hand.

[minotaar]

It's quite difficult to make people outside of North America, especially our Southeast Asian friends here, understand the remarkably subtle situation of the Asians in North America.

It doesnt mean we cant try.

======================================

Snowybeagle is making excuses for racism.

Or to put it another, it is a manifestation of culture of victimisation where it is someone's else fault except my own. Rather than cry racism when a guy choose who to date based on race, or cry racism when a girl choose to accept/reject a date based on race, think deeper.

I am offended that snowybeagle does nothing but make excuses for racism. She says that we complain about racism so therefore it must be because we are nerds, not because other poeple are racist. Maybe you should hear a line that I hear a lot, as an asian male that dates asian females:

"I dont date asian guys"

Snowybeagle, if you dont date asian men because of the fact that they are asian, then you are racist.

Has it ever occurred to you that this line might be racist? Has it ever occurred to you that people who use this line have racist racial preferences? Stop making excuses by suggesting that people here are nerdy or "square". Stop looking for reasons other than racism. Thats called denial. Stop letting racists off the hook.

Edited by minotaar, 10 May 2006 - 12:57 AM.

[Elisha]

Okay...now, take deep breaths.. and count to 10.

Let's not make this personal.

Brothers, here and here (also applicable to guys)

Edited by Elisha, 10 May 2006 - 01:00 AM.

[minotaar]

Believe you me, if I didnt spend as much time as I do writing and editting my posts, there would be enough fire and brimstone on this forum that hell would be jealous.

[snowybeagle]

Snowybeagle is making excuses for racism.

I don't make excuses for racism. I don't make racism an excuse for Asian guys to complain about trouble getting dates either.

I am offended that snowybeagle does nothing but make excuses for racism. She says that we complain about racism so therefore it must be because we are nerds, not because other poeple are racist.

minotaar, did you realise the statements you made above showed that you had not read my posts properly?
Because if you had, you'd have realised snowybeagle is not female.
And you even suggested I go back and re-read the posts made by other. Hhhrrrrpmmh.
The nerve of some people.

Maybe you should hear a line that I hear a lot, as an asian male that dates asian females: "I dont date asian guys"
Snowybeagle, if you dont date asian men because of the fact that they are asian, then you are racist.
Has it ever occurred to you that this line might be racist? Has it ever occurred to you that people who use this line have racist racial preferences?

The fact is this: I don't give a camel's hair worth of consideration to people who are racists.
I don't care for their attitudes. I don't care for nazis either.

In fact, I would be much obliged if a girl comes right out and says she's racist when she turns me down: it just goes to show I was extremely careless in making my choice and I had not gotten to know her better before asking her for a date.

I've been asking this question several times to you and scp:
What is the real problem that needs to be addressed here?

The fact that scp repeated his parallel comparison of dating to job-seeking shows he still don't get it about dating.

Stop making excuses by suggesting that people here are nerdy or "square". Stop looking for reasons other than racism. Thats called denial. Stop letting racists off the hook.

I'm not suggesting people who can't get dates fail because they are nerdy rather than the girls being racists.

Read the posts I made again.

I said that girls can reject guys for a wide range of reasons, some of them totally ridiculously, apparently.

It is their prerogative.

If they chose to adopt racist attitudes, what do you want to do about them?

If they practiced racism in their capacities as a cashier or shop assistant or check-out girl, it is another matter - there are laws against that.

But if they choose to practice discrimination in their choice of dating partners, then it is no different than them preferring to gorge themselves with junk food or smoking ten packs a day.

It's foolish, but it's a matter of personal choice.

[snowybeagle]

SCP might be a bit reactionary here, but he's right in stating that articles on modelminority and other similar sites in fact aren't intended to be good laughs.
...
Articles like this one is meant to be sarcastic humor; many of their writers are sometimes quite bitter, rather than just poking fun at the Asian experience. That being said, I do find these writers sometimes exaggerating and overly self-defeating.

MengTzu, you're right that Chinese in SE Asia have different experiences from Chinese in N America, we are after all living in different societies.

As you pointed out, the article was meant to be taken as sarcastic humour, and as such, could still be read as funny, if in a bitter sort of way, rather than meant as a form of humour for children, or as you put it, as a good laugh in that sense.

In the first place, the butt of the joke in the article were guys who were enamoured with the supposed mystique of Asian women.

[urofpersia]

In the first place, the butt of the joke in the article were guys who were enamoured with the supposed mystique of Asian women.

Not to mention the Asian guy who said"I like your ad and what it says. I’m Asian, let’s go out." Very funny line I thought.

[Liang Jieming]

Cool down guys. Like I said before, you all have your points which are both valid and not necessarily mutually exclusive.

I was born in, and currently live in South East Asia, but I happen to have had lived both in the US and Canada (2 years as a kid and 4 years in Univ.) before. I understand the frustrations many of you who are currently in NA speak about, not to mentioned, been the butt of racist jokes myself. Jokes like "Chinese, Japanese, Dirtynese... blah, blah, blah" come to mind, as are the mindless statements about how small sized we are and so correspondingly our d....

This thread has gotten inflamed mainly because of the perceived "taking" of "our women" by "the other side." A reason that even nations have gone to war over.

But SnowyB does have a point. We're not in a dictatorial regime. It is about choice. We might not like the choices a girl makes but then again, the choice isn't ours to make. The only thing we can do is to try and change perceptions that asian attributes and asian values too are just as much to be admired and hope for a better balance.

This is what I was talking about in another thread. You guys are sometimes barking up the wrong tree and are as much a product of Hollywood as the people you blame. Very understandably you rally against the typical demeaning asian stereotypes, but why on the other hand do you continue to match yourself up against the western stereotype?

Let me quote jlaporte as an example of what I mean, abeit in a totally different arena but apt enough. You need to start seeing the merits in your own strengths as an asian.

To me, this article is a case of the pot calling the kettle black for it focuses almost entirely on Western values, (or non-values), such as democracy, corruption, cronyism, Leninism, parasitic state, etc. only to show that China is doing poorly compared to Western style democracies, including socialist India, and should eventually collapse.
Except at the very end where Minxin Pei credits Chinese people with a boundless energy which has at least the merit of concealing the new leaders' poor governance, it says nothing of other traditional Chinese values that have been preserved, rediscovered or redeemed by the present system after the darkest spells of the communist era.
These Chinese values : respect of Government authority, reward of effort, silent courage, spirit of sacrifice, family, national pride, reasonable opening to the outside world (of which CHF is an aspect, amongst others) explains also China's current performance and its power of seduction to the modern world.
Western Governments have enough on their plate with their own governance, without feeling obliged to lecture others on the terms they have chosen.

Be the best that you can be on your own terms (not on other's terms) and then let the girls choose. Please remember that girls too can think. They are not dumb mindless creatures continually blinded by the allure of blue eyes and blonde hair just because Hollywood says that is cool... right?