43 replies to this topic

[General_Zhaoyun]

I'm just curious as to whether XiongNu are turkic people? Aren't they mongoloid?

[Yihesan]

"Mongoloid" means anyone from the "Yellow" Race

The Xiongnu were a federation of many peoples of different origins and different cultures. Either in the last days of Maodun Chanyu or in the early days of Laoshang Jiyu Chanyu, the Xiongnu Empire had 26 (or 24?) subject peoples (and hundreds of tribes in them).

But this empire was ruled by a people called Xiongnu, which descended from two earlier peoples called Xunyu and Xianyun. The Hongyi, Xunyu, Xianyun, Xiongnu and Huns are cathegorised as "Hunnic Peoples" and they are in the Turkic Group. I've read many Chinese sources stating that the Xiongnu, Tujue, Gaoche-Tiele, Uyghur, etc had very similar cultures and that they spoke the same language with small differences.

Edited by Yihesan, 06 July 2005 - 05:43 AM.

[somechineseperson]

IMHO genetically mongolids and caucasoids are quite close. The native inhabitants of the Central Asian steppes show a mixture of mongolid and caucasoid characteristics. The Xiongnu probably had both mongolid and caucasoid elements.

Actually, the ancient Chinese too during the Shang and Zhou times were a feudal confederation of numerous states from various ethnic groups, (probably including a few Turkic Xiongnu tribes) not just the Huaxia (华夏）. The integration of Huaxia and these other ethnic groups became the Han nation during Qin and Han Dynasties. Huaxia is the "central stem" of the Han, especially culturally, but not the only source.

[kaixin]

Most likely Xiongnu had a Turkic core, but their genes were Siberian, Sinitic and West Asian (Persian). Mongolian anthropologists claim that the earliest Xiongnu had high levels of Tat C haplotype which is common amongst Turkic speaking-Yakuts and other northern Siberians.

[qrasy]

I'm just curious as to whether XiongNu are turkic people? Aren't they mongoloid?

Most likely Xiongnu had a Turkic core, but their genes were Siberian, Sinitic and West Asian (Persian).  Mongolian anthropologists claim that the earliest Xiongnu had high levels of Tat C haplotype which is common amongst Turkic speaking-Yakuts and other northern Siberians.

I notice some Turkic words in Hungarian. It's likely to come by loaning from the Huns. Turks are direct descendants from the Huns so Hun is likely 'Turkic'

By the way Turks were once Mongoloids. Clearly they mixed with native people (probably have European/Caucasoid genes).

Many modern Turk don't look oriental now but I have some example now. Below are some Kazakhs (I only take oriental-like examples, probably not the general Kazakh).

1


2

Edited by qrasy, 29 June 2005 - 05:45 AM.

[king wu]

I'm just curious as to whether XiongNu are turkic people? Aren't they mongoloid?

XiongNu were also known as Huns who attacked Europe and there are also Indian Huns too.

[king wu]

Central Asians are the descentants of the Mongol nomads

[Yun]

XiongNu were also known as Huns who attacked Europe and there are also Indian Huns too.

That Xiongnu=Hun theory is still being debated, and you can find threads on the issue in this same section. As for the 'Indian Huns', I presume you mean the Hephthalites or 'White Huns'. In that case I must point out that the actual relation between the Huns and the 'White Huns' is still problematic and needs more research.

Central Asians are the descentants of the Mongol nomads

This is a generalisation. Most 'Central Asians' today are descended from Uyghurs, Turks, and other related groups. Only some small minority groups are descended from Mongol troops.

[浪淘音]

Central Asians are the descentants of the Mongol nomads

central asia was not populated by racially Mongoloid people until about 500 B.C

Scythians, Sarmatians, Tocharians and other indo european people called central asia home long before this

[Yihesan]

I notice some Turkic words in Hungarian. It's likely to come by loaning from the Huns. Turks are direct descendants from the Huns so Hun is likely 'Turkic'

Most of the Turkic words in Hungarian passed to this language from the Qïpchaqs (aka Kypchaks, Cumans) in the High Middle Ages and from the Ottomans during Ottoman rule between 16th and 17th centuries.

"Turks" (I suppose you are saying the Turks in Turkey) are probably not the direct descendents of the Xiongnu - but the origins of the Oghuz are still unclear.

[Yun]

For more on the 'Indian Huns', i.e. the White Huns, see:

http://www.chinahist...?showtopic=5267

[kaixin]

There is a theory or legend that the Salar Turkic tribe in China had once been Turkmens living in Samarkand, but that one of their leaders decided to return "home" to the northeast.

[ih8eurocentrix]

turks have ancsetor of altaic language which is similiar for turk tribes

[Daniel]

Hey, I stumbled across some relevant evidence just now on a German site called Chinaknowledge.de

Pulleyblank has shown that the language of the Xiongnu - of which we possess some words and terms preserved in Chinese literature - was related to the Siberian ethnics (Samoyeds) in the River Yennisej area, and not to the Mongols or Turks, while the Hun hords of Attila that tried to conquer Europe were surely Proto-Turks.

I never heard of Pulleyblank before; anybody know anything about him?

Edited by Daniel, 09 July 2005 - 01:04 AM.

[kaixin]

^But, many of the names of Xiongnu rulers sound unmistakably Turkic.