19 replies to this topic

[lifezard]

It has been known for a long time from excavations that the Shang people conducted human sacrifices in large numbers either to ancestors or to Lord above. The sacrificial victims are mostly taken from captives in battles(especially the Qiangs).

In addition, when a king died, many under him had to follow him to the netherworld (a practice that continued long well after the Shang).

Recently however I found out from Discovery Channel that the Shang also another equally barbaric practice:
They found not a small number of cooking vessels in their excavations where human skulls are found. What these skulls were different from other skulls or skeletons found outside was that all of these skulls showed very strong evidences of being cooked!!Yes, being cooked, not really surprising, considering they were found inside cooking vessels. The real question is, they were cooked for what purpose?

It is still speculative at best but one possibility proposed is that the head was there to be eaten... in other words, cannabalism could have been practiced in Shang times or perhaps even earlier.

What do you guys think of it?

[urofpersia]

However there isn't much flesh on a head. Unless like Chinese today, those extremities are considered delicacies. Were the top of the skulls removed? The brain might be the main course.

Assuming that it is cannibalism here then I think it must be more symbolic than nourishing, otherwise other parts of the body would have been cooked instead?

[lifezard]

However there isn't much flesh on a head. Unless like Chinese today, those extremities are considered delicacies. Were the top of the skulls removed? The brain might be the main course.

Assuming that it is cannibalism here then I think it must be more symbolic than nourishing, otherwise other parts of the body would have been cooked instead?

hey, this almost exactly what the archeaologists speculated! Did you watch the show also? They actually thought this was some form of ritual cannabalism, not general, to celebrate killing some important enemies. Devouring the flesh of the enemies head, seemed to be a form of respect for the fallen enemy, while at the same time tranferring the prowess of the enemy to themselves. Respect? Well, I won't want to end up in a cooking vessel in order to get respected...

[urofpersia]

No, Ididnt watch the show, firstly I don't have Cable, 2ndly I no longer watch TV ever since I found CHF...

In any case Cannibalism as practice is more common in many ancient cultures than we like to think.

[lifezard]

No, Ididnt watch the show, firstly I don't have Cable, 2ndly I no longer watch TV ever since I found CHF...

In any case Cannibalism as practice is more common in many ancient cultures than we like to think.

waah , GZ paid you to do advertisement for CHF izzit? like dat also can..

[peshawar6]

not surprised if there was cannibalism during the Shang.

Isolated cases still happen fairly regularly in even the most developed nations.

The journalist Zheng Yi wrote about mass cannibalism during the Cultural Revolution http://www.bordersst...1&srchType=ISBN

[Kenneth]

Shang sites have yielded human skulls used as drinking vessels. The skull caps of enemies were used and large numbers were found on one Shang site.
Being associated with other cooking vessels does not mean the flesh is being eaten. The distinction needs to be made that food and wine figured largely into Shang ritual. The skulls may have been defleshed or used as vessels but there is no reason to assume true cannibalism even in the context of the find, since boiling a skull is a way people defesh bone even today.
Cannibilism is not so hard to prove, if longbones show cut marks from defleshing, or cracked bones to remove the marrow etc. If the skulls were cooked with the intention of eating the brains then some evidence should show if they were extracted for use as wine vessels or for wine consumption.
A documentary is too sparse to make a conclusion from, but if the evidence isnt clear and the skulls are known to be used for other purposes then it doesnt mean the Shang are actually eating flesh.
Given the focus on the skull then ritual seems more likely.
The type of vessels used would make the ritual purpose more clear....since some are not used for mundane purposes at all.

[Mei Houwang]

I wonder how the Shang kept the water from flowing out of the skull through the nose, mouth, eye sockets, etc... Did they stuff these parts up?

[Kenneth]

Tip the skull upside down and let gravity do the work for you. It was the detached skull cap that was used to hold fluid in the case I know of, only this portion was retained.
If the skull was still intact you could suck the fluid from the foramen magnum (the hole where the spine attaches) without spilling it on your neighbour during a toast.
Bob's your uncle & ''bottoms up''.

[Mei Houwang]

Nice, thx for the info.

[lifezard]

Hi guys, thanks for all the insights.. ( I myself have gain lots more already)

I agree with all that.. if full-fledged cannibalism was practiced, other parts should have been used other than the head..

but the fact that there were evidences that the head was cooked (as explained in the show) still makes me very uncomfortable..

[peshawar6]

Hi guys, thanks for all the insights.. ( I myself have gain lots more already)

I agree with all that.. if full-fledged cannibalism was practiced, other parts should have been used other than the head..

but the fact that there were evidences that the head was cooked (as explained in the show) still makes me very uncomfortable..

ultimately we are all walking bags of meat.

in some cannibalistic societies, man was known as 'long pig' and considered to be a delicacy second only to pork (and superior to game, fish and fowl).

loads of chinese have eaten monkey. Man is only a couple chromosones' worth of difference.

I've always thought Shu Qi was the most delectable thing in the world.

yum, yum.

[shawn]

Maybe this people were cooked in pots as part of torture purposes?

[DaMo]

I had a professor who hung out with the forest tribes of Papua New Guinea for a while. They would eat some of their relatives when they died.

Brings a whole new meaning to the word "munchkin", eh? Get it ... "munch kin"?

(sigh)

(whacks self on head)

[Mei Houwang]

maybe this people were cooked in pots as part of torture purposes?

A good possibility if bones were found inside the cooking vessels, but you'll have to ask lifelizard if that's true.