3 replies to this topic

[peshawar6]

I am interested in learning about the origins of Liangzhou and/or Gansu, especially the period when it first encountered Chinese influence.

Liangzhou became a Han dynasty district capital in 115 BC, which according to the limited resource material I have, makes it the oldest Chinese city in Gansu. Is that right?

Given that jade from Khotan has been going via the Silk Road for at least a millenium before that; my suspicion is that there could be already references to settlements in the Gansu area before the 1st century BC.

Can anyone point me in the right direction in terms of good source materials to reseach this topic?

[fcharton]

I am interested in learning about the origins of Liangzhou and/or Gansu, especially the period when it first encountered Chinese influence.

Liangzhou became a Han dynasty district capital in 115 BC, which according to the limited resource material I have, makes it the oldest Chinese city in Gansu. Is that right?

Given that jade from Khotan has been going via the Silk Road for at least a millenium before that; my suspicion is that there could be already references to settlements in the Gansu area before the 1st century BC.

Can anyone point me in the right direction in terms of good source materials to reseach this topic?

Tan Qixian Historical Atlas of China seems like a must... It references most of the names of places found in ancient texts. After that, it would be either a word search in the text (not that difficult : once you have searched the Hanshu, Shiji, Guoyu, Zhanguoce and Zuozhuan, you are pretty much done for everything before the first century BC) or using the geographic indexes of the said texts (published books which contain all the references). I know that there are electronic books of the histories, this might exist as a built in function in some of them...

Francois

I will check the Qin and Warring States maps tonight and let you know if I can find some more information. I would think that some Qin districts extended into Gansu.

[peshawar6]

Tan Qixian Historical Atlas of China seems like a must... It references most of the names of places found in ancient texts. After that, it would be either a word search in the text (not that difficult : once you have searched the Hanshu, Shiji, Guoyu, Zhanguoce and Zuozhuan, you are pretty much done for everything before the first century BC) or using the geographic indexes of the said texts (published books which contain all the references). I know that there are electronic books of the histories, this might exist as a built in function in some of them...

Francois

I will check the Qin and Warring States maps tonight and let you know if I can find some more information. I would think that some Qin districts extended into Gansu.

ach! Sorry, you did answer this question indirectly in the Pre-Qin thread.

You mentioned three cities in Gansu that the Qin held during the Spring and Autumn periods. Huan, Di and the pinyin for pheasant. So, my question should be, does Liangzhou (or an earlier Chinese reincarnation) exist before any of those cities. Looking at your last reply, the answer is no.

It might be asking for the impossible, but near which modern cities would those Qin settlements be located?

[fcharton]

Here are a couple of references on Gansu in the Qin dynasty, and before.

The western border of Qin followed the course of the west branch of the Yellow River, so modern Lanzhou was right on the border (in a presumedly unpopulated region). The south eastern part of modern Gansu was the commandery (Jun 郡) of Longxi (隴西), the capital of which (Didao 狄道) correspond to the modern city of Lintao (臨洮), a city of Shangfeng (上封) corresponded to modern Tianshui.

During the Warring States, the western border of Qin (actually, its western wall) was about 100km south east of Lanzhou, through modern Lintao and Dingxi(定西). There apparently were two districts : Huan (獂), close to modern Longxi, and Mianzhu (綿諸) corresponding to modern Tianshui.

I think Tianshui could be one of the oldest settlements in Gansu...

Francois