9 replies to this topic

[snowybeagle]

Many threads in CHF about inter-ethnic pairing ups in fiction and real life had posts bemoaning Chinese guys given the short end of the stick.

There aren't many Chinese guys paired up with non-Chinese girls in the movies, so the complains go.

So okay, statistically it can be proven.

But let's also look at the Chinese media and fiction, as well as real life.

Let's begin with history or period settings of fictions and media.

How many ethnic Han guys got non-ethnic Han girls like the Miao or the Mongols etc.

In Jin Yong's novels, there's only Xiao Feng, an ethnic Khitan, and he got paired up with A-Zhu, whose father was a Dali prince (perhaps ethnic Bai or mixed).

We could count Duan Yü as either ethnic Bai who was hanisized getting plenty of female attention.
And his father, or at least, the person he thought was his father, a famous womanizer.

Anymore?

How ethnic Mongol girls fell for ethnic Han boys in Jin Yong novels?
There's one in Condor Shooting Heroes, and another in Heavenly Sword and Dragon Sabre.
Any ethnic Mongol guys paired with an ethnic Han girl?

How about in the Sword and the Song? The hero (whom I can't stand ) Chen Jialuo got the favours of the both Uighur sisters, the heroine Huo Qingtong (*whistle* go babe ) and Princess Xiangxiang .

Let's look at most fiction and media in general.

In terms of inter-ethnic pairing ups, it's really mostly ethnic Han guys with the non-ethnic Han girls rather than ethnic Han girls with non-ethnic Han boys.

To fast forward to contemporary dramas, for inter-nationality pairing ups, I've seen more Chinese guys paired up with Japanese girls or Western girls as such rather than the other way round. And when it did happen, at least in the fiction media, the Western guy paired up with the Chinese girl would turn out to be a j*** or worse.

Okay, some might argue, I am missing the point. Westerners aren't really a part of Asian societies, or at least, they aren't permanent members, but there're plenty of Asians who are citizens in the Western societies.

That is true.

But while as a member of an Asian country, I can't really be a judge or a campaigner about what happens in another country, I can point out that media in Asian countries can also be as biased.

It's not about two wrongs making a right.

Somethings might be just a subconscious, just like when Jin Yong chose the inter-ethnic pairing ups.
I can't even say that Jin Yong actually thought of the ethnicities of his characters when he decided the pairing ups.

Let's just say that I'm still working on myself to be less conscious of ethnicity when it comes to relating to people. I don't deny discrimination and negative media portrayals exist, but for somethings, it has to begin with ourselves and our society.

I can understand Asians living in Western societies might be living under different conditions from moi, and I wish them all the best to deal with their situations.

[urofpersia]

There aren't many Chinese guys paired up with non-Chinese girls in the movies, so the complains go.

Hi, Snowy,

Firstly the statement above seem to suggest an underlining assumption of superiority of non-Chinese versus Chinese guys. And let's face it most of the time they are talking about White guys. If we don't see any superiority of non-Chinese versus Chinese guys, why would it even bother us in the first place when we see a lot of non-Chinese guys with Chinese girls? A lot of movies are made with the common denominator in mind and considering their target audience, they have a lot of good reason to choose a protagonist whom they think the majority can identify with, in the case of American society, this is a white male, preferably tall, dark and handsome.

This can be applied to Jin yong's novels as well, his protagonist are invariably Han. In fact the example of Duanyu is interesting because in all respects that count, (clothing, mannerism, demeanour) he is a Chinese gentleman (If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck...) His background as Prince of Dali seem more a plot device than anything else. Notice that phyiscal features never defined people in Jin Yong's novels except in minor characters. No one comments that Qiao Feng does not look Han, or that Duanyu looks foreign. I suspect there might be an agenda on Jin Yong's part but I will leave it for a future discussion.

Let's take a look at recent HK cinema. My sympathies for whoever caught this show, Seoul Raiders. A bunch of Korean chicks enamoured of Tony Leung? (no, not Tony Leung of The Lover fame but Tony Leung of Internal Affairs) who practice Mandarin so they can impress Tony? How about the many other forgettable and to be honest really bad shows where actresses pretend they are Japanese ladies and fall in love with our invariably Chinese protagonist?

Going beyond inter-ethnic pairing, when was the last time you saw a white guy in a leading role in a Chinese movie? If anything going by the Hollywood track record, I think Hollywood actually does a better job at representing Asians than Asia in representing White guys. White folks live in our part of the world as well, surprising as it may seem to some. While Asians are increasingly playing good roles both on TV and the big screen in the States, White guys still mainly play the bad guys, good for nothing more than cardboard villains to be inevitably beaten up by our oh so Chinese heroes, now doesnt it feel good to see that 'Ang Moh' get the sh*t beaten out of him by a *drum-roll* Chinese guy? (Really, what we really need is a White guy in Asia to stand up for his White brothers, I mean, imagine the damage to the pysche of the White male in Asia!)

But back to inter-ethnic pairing on screen in Chinese media. Frankly I am all for more such pairings. And let's have more of the female Chinese with non-Chinese males. A couple years back there was a sitcom in Singapore about this Chinese girl married to a Indian guy and the funny stuff that happens when their families clash. The jokes were unfortunately uninspired but the premise was pretty wonderful. I think a lot of wonderful stories can be had (whether drama or comedic) from such inter-ethnic, or perhaps more precisely inter-cultural relationships. Something which I think is missing from many WM/AF in the states because both parties are more often than not, culturally American.

But media depictions aside, I find it sad that what is something wonderful and precious between 2 persons gets treated as a matter of ethnic inequality and a matter of societal concern (that's right all you WM/AF couples out there, you are a statistic, and not a good one I might add!).

[snowybeagle]

This can be applied to Jin yong's novels as well, his protagonist are invariably Han.

I confess that I forgot more inter-ethnic pairing up ...

1. Guo Jing's daughter, Guo Fu, married the Khitan Yelu Qi (who was quite "sinicized", BTW).
2. The 2 brothers raised by Guo Jing, Dun Wen & Xiu Wu I think, married a Khitan and a Jurchen each. The brothers' father was a Dali subject ...

A couple years back there was a sitcom in Singapore about this Chinese girl married to a Indian guy and the funny stuff that happens when their families clash.

Achar ... the few episodes I caught were okay.

From interviews reported in the papers, the Indian actor (who came from India) apparently had a culture clash with his Singapore Chinese co-star. He came with his lines memorised and his scenes rehearsed, as they do in India. She, OTOH ...

There was also a subplot of a Chinese guy trying to chase this delicious-looking Indian babe ...
but he got the stereotyped role of a guy who thinks-he's-cool-but-not ...

[urofpersia]

I confess that I forgot more inter-ethnic pairing up ...

1. Guo Jing's daughter, Guo Fu, married the Khitan Yelu Qi (who was quite "sinicized", BTW).
2. The 2 brothers raised by Guo Jing, Dun Wen & Xiu Wu I think, married a Khitan and a Jurchen each. The brothers' father was a Dali subject ...

To add to the list:

Xu zhu and his Xixia Princess. (what's her name?)

Zhang Wuji and Zhao Min (Mongolian Princess highly sinicised as well, gave herself a Chinese name and a high interest in Chinese martial arts) (Yup, I know you already mentioned something about it)

Zhang Wuji and Xiao Zhao (the pairing that never happened. Xiaozhao was the daughter of the Purple Dragon (?) of the Ming Sect who was described as a Persian beauty (Jin Yong took care to mention her beauty was different fromt the classical Chinese beauty. Hmm seems like an interesting topic all by itself. ) Xiao Zhao had to sacrifice her own happiness and go back to Persia to be the Shengnv. (right? from memory here, hazy as hell)

Achar ... the few episodes I caught were okay.

From interviews reported in the papers, the Indian actor (who came from India) apparently had a culture clash with his Singapore Chinese co-star. He came with his lines memorised and his scenes rehearsed, as they do in India. She, OTOH ...

Tsk, Tsk, must be all that time she spent overseas.

There was also a subplot of a Chinese guy trying to chase this delicious-looking Indian babe ...
but he got the stereotyped role of a guy who thinks-he's-cool-but-not ...

Oh, shucks, I missed it. But then I only caught an episode or 3.

[snowybeagle]

A lot of movies are made with the common denominator in mind and considering their target audience, they have a lot of good reason to choose a protagonist whom they think the majority can identify with, in the case of American society, this is a white male, preferably tall, dark and handsome.

Actually, that's what I tend to think to be the main reason for casting of male leads paired up with female leads - the movie makers think it'll go well with the audience.

I still recalled one joint production between Singapore and China which paired Zoe Tay with a goofy looking Chinese male lead whose acting didn't really impress ... as I recalled, that series got blasted by the audiences.

Not that I'm advocating pandering to the audiences for stereotypings, either in terms of ethnic pairings or handsome male/beautiful female, but as the saying goes, don't attribute to malice what could be due to pure foolishness.

[Liang Jieming]

SnowyB.... not you too? Starting ANOTHER one of these threads ad nauseum?!!??!!

[snowybeagle]

Well, if you noticed, it's really about the *chinese* media.

The secondary topic line is a "gesture" to those who had been complaining non-stop about Asian males getting a raw deal in Western media.

I know it won't really make the Chinese/Asians living in Western societies feel any better that the Westerners are getting a raw deal in Chinese media, and it's not meant to make any Asians feel better.

As I pointed out, don't attribute to malice what could be attributed to stupidity. Not always the case, but it does happen.

Would the movie audience in Asia want to see more of their men paired up with non-Asian female leads and vice versa, their female stars paired up with non-Asian male leads?

I don't go to the movies all that much, so the only memorable movies I saw where there's Chinese paired with non-Chinese were Jackie Chan movies.

Let's see ...
1998 Mr. Nice Guy - he's got a black PA and a white reporter to canoozle with.

1999 Who Am I? -

2005 The Myth - Didn't see the movie but read that he got his eyeful in Mallika Sherawat's topless scene where he supposedly promised earlier *not* to look. Canoozled with a Korean actress too.

There's probably more.

But does anyone complains it's not realistic or fair when it happens?

[Liang Jieming]

But does anyone complains it's not realistic or fair when it happens?

Actually, not that I want to stoke the flames here any further, but they DO complain... just that these complaints are heard on forums like stormfront and such. You should pop in and read some of the c**p they spew once in awhile.

Edited by Liang Jieming, 02 June 2006 - 04:26 AM.

[snowybeagle]

Stumbled into one such site before where they posted a picture of a blonde in bikini and labelled it as "Endangered Species" ...

Decided that I won't be getting any benefit from such mentality.

[urofpersia]

Actually, that's what I tend to think to be the main reason for casting of male leads paired up with female leads - the movie makers think it'll go well with the audience.

I still recalled one joint production between Singapore and China which paired Zoe Tay with a goofy looking Chinese male lead whose acting didn't really impress ... as I recalled, that series got blasted by the audiences.

Well, as a matter of fact I don't watch movies much anymore, except as a kind of social activity. While a lot of them are entertaining, I find that I can get the same if not better enjoyment in other pursuits.

In recent years there has been a slew of joint-productions between China/Singapore/Taiwan. My impression is that the shows aren't very good, from just watching an episode here and there. Poor storylines and acting seem to be the common theme to them.

Not that I'm advocating pandering to the audiences for stereotypings, either in terms of ethnic pairings or handsome male/beautiful female, but as the saying goes, don't attribute to malice what could be due to pure foolishness.

Or perhaps to ticket sales? Hollywood is in the business to make money, lots and lots of it. If putting a Asian guy with a blonde is going to rake in the big bucks, I am certain that is what they will do, especially these days when it seems it is less important you have a good story than you have a popular leading actor/actress. People will throng to see MI3 simply because its starring Tom Cruise for example.