15 replies to this topic

[snowybeagle]

Through a variety of sources, fiction and internet, I read of the existence of Buddhist sects that were more commonly referred to by colours such as the White Sect (白教), or the Yellow Sect (黄教) etc.

If I'm not mistaken, most of these 'coloured' sects were from Tibet, while the Buddhist sect in China is referred to as something else.

Does anyone have actual historical information on these?

Thanks.

[janz]

there are 5 sects, yellow, white, red, black, mixed花.

i know red is the original sect, yellow is the reformed/improved sect(so they say). both dalai and banchan are head of the yellow sect. mixed sect is one of the tibetan noble familly's sect. black sect is the mixture of tibetan religion and Buddhism.

but generally, when we talk tibetan religions, we talk about 显宗(exposed,open xian zong) and 密宗 (secret,mi zong). i believe those sects focus differently on xian zong and mi zhong. some weight one above another. 显宗 xian zong is for commoners. 密宗 mi zong only can be practiced by high position monks, only a few of them can practice it. it invoves rape young girls, have sex more often. of course, sex and rape are not the only stuff mi zong cares.

tibetan history is so dark, the tibetan government was the worst government ever in my opinion.

[General_Zhaoyun]

Hey.. are you sure those are buddhist sect? I mean white and yellow sect?

[janz]

those sects only appear in tibetan buddhism. they are tibetan inventions.

[janz]

here is a chinese article about tibetan monks rape little girls as young as 8 years old in the name of religion.

http://garden.2118.c...ngxd/zjls15.htm


here is an article in chinese about all the different sects

http://garden.2118.c...ngxd/zjls07.htm

someone actually scaned those tibetan buddhism texts wich requirs the raping and put them online.
i think only tibetan buddhism has those kind texts.

[ckyeah]

here is a chinese article about tibetan monks rape little girls as young as 8 years old in the name of religion.

http://garden.2118.c...ngxd/zjls15.htm
here is an article in chinese about all the different sects

http://garden.2118.c...ngxd/zjls07.htm

someone actually scaned those tibetan buddhism texts wich requirs the raping and put them online.
i think only tibetan buddhism has those kind texts.

i think we need someone who cultivate in tibetan buddhisms to clarify this issue..

[urofpersia]

Through a variety of sources, fiction and internet, I read of the existence of Buddhist sects that were more commonly referred to by colours such as the White Sect (白教), or the Yellow Sect (黄教) etc.

If I'm not mistaken, most of these 'coloured' sects were from Tibet, while the Buddhist sect in China is referred to as something else.

Does anyone have actual historical information on these?

Thanks.

Very interesting topic, but I would like to suggest moving it to Chinese Philosophy, Religion and Mythology. What do the mods/admins think?

[fcharton]

Through a variety of sources, fiction and internet, I read of the existence of Buddhist sects that were more commonly referred to by colours such as the White Sect (白教), or the Yellow Sect (黄教) etc.

If I'm not mistaken, most of these 'coloured' sects were from Tibet, while the Buddhist sect in China is referred to as something else.

Does anyone have actual historical information on these?

Thanks.

There are four schools of tibetan buddhism : Nyingma, Kagyu, Sakya, Gelug which originate in the teachings of different masters. Nyingma is the most ancient. Kagyu, sometime named the "oral tradition". And Gelug is the most modern, where the dalai lama belongs.

As far as I know, theses four schools had colours associated to them (I believe this is a popular practice),

Nyingma was the red school (monks wore red)
Kagyu was the white school (not quite sure why)
Sakya was the "multicolored" (?) sect (the walls of temples were painted in stripes red, white and black), or the "gray" school (its name means "gray earth")
Gelub is known as the yellow school.

Francois

Edited by fcharton, 15 October 2005 - 04:50 AM.

[fcharton]

but generally, when we talk tibetan religions, we talk about 显宗(exposed,open xian zong) and 密宗 (secret,mi zong). i believe those sects focus differently on xian zong and mi zhong. some weight one above another. 显宗 xian zong is for commoners. 密宗 mi zong only can be practiced by high position monks, only a few of them can practice it. it invoves rape young girls, have sex more often. of course, sex and rape are not the only stuff mi zong cares.

tibetan history is so dark, the tibetan government was the worst government ever in my opinion.

密宗 refers to esoteric buddhism. Esoterism basically means the some sacred texts and teachings are not accessible to everyone, but that one needs practice before he/she can be allowed to read or study them. It is not specific to tibetan buddhism (I believe there were esoteric buddhist school in China and Japan at some point), nor to buddhism: Kabbalah for instance is an esoteric "school" of Judaism.

As part of their doctrine was secret, esoteric schools have often been accused of hiding terrible secrets all through their history, and yes, sex/rape of very young children was on the top of the list. Naturally, it amounts to little more than basic slandering, and I don't think than anyone who has read a little more about buddhism and tibetan history than a one line "slave society, theocracy, etc." description on a propaganda leaflet would believe them.

Francois (neither buddhist, nor tibetan)

Edited by fcharton, 15 October 2005 - 06:10 AM.

[Kediren]

Through a variety of sources, fiction and internet, I read of the existence of Buddhist sects that were more commonly referred to by colours such as the White Sect (白教), or the Yellow Sect (黄教) etc.

If I'm not mistaken, most of these 'coloured' sects were from Tibet, while the Buddhist sect in China is referred to as something else.

Does anyone have actual historical information on these?

Thanks.

Tibet Buddhism = Lamaism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamaism

http://www.religionf...cts/tibetan.htm

i hope it hep you..

Edited by Kediren, 15 October 2005 - 04:21 PM.

[snowybeagle]

Actually, my interest in this was primarily piqued by the mention of the colours used representing various branches/sects/denominations in popular fiction.

In chapter 24 of Jin Yong's The Duke and the Cauldron (金庸-鹿鼎记)

韦小宝合十说道：“世间诸色相，皆空皆无，无我无人，无和尚无喇嘛。空即是色，色即是空。和尚即喇嘛，喇嘛即和尚。诸位师侄，大家脱下袈裟，穿上喇嘛的袍子罢！”众僧尽皆愕然，面面相觑。
韦小宝大声叫道：“双儿，你过来，帮我扮小喇嘛。”双儿一直候在殿外，当即进殿，检了一件最小的喇嘛袍子，助他换上。韦小宝身材矮小，穿了仍是太大，便拔出匕首，将袍子下和衣袖都割了一截，腰间束上衣带，勉强将就，带上喇嘛冠，宛然便是个小喇嘛，对双儿道：“你也扮个小喇嘛。”
澄光问道：“师叔改穿喇嘛服色，不知是何用意？”澄观道：“咱们向喇嘛投降，改归黄教吗？”

When a group of lamas were attacking WuTai monastery with the intent of capturing former emperor ShunZhi who had secretly become a recluse monk, Wei XiaoBao ordered the monks of the monastery to disguise themselves as lamas to escape since they were outnumbered. The monks wondered if he was leading them to defect to the Yellow Sect.


In the film by Yuen Biao (元彪) Kid from Tibet (西藏小子, 1991), Yuen Biao acted as a lama from Tibet's Yellow Sect (黄教) while the villain acted by Yuen Hua (元华) was from a rival Black Sect. Not sure if there was such a sect known as the Black Sect or just a fiction created by the movie.

I became curious how Buddhism was actually divided into so many sects, known by the colours etc.
And I also wondered if the Buddhist sect in Central China itself was known by a particular colour.

[fcharton]

I believe that originally, these "colour" sects (schools would probably be a better word, I think) referred to something similar to the monk orders in europe (franciscans, dominicans, jesuits etc...). Each referred to some tradition of explanation of the texts, originating in a famous figure. Temples would be belong to one school or the other. There were such school in Chinese buddhism, though I am not sure they were referred to by colour.

Given the theocratic nature of the tibetan society, it is possible that over time these schools were associated with important families, maybe regions, and political parties. The Yellow School, from which both the Dalai and Panchen lama originate (and which is a recent offspring of a previous school), was therefore the official school, and possibly had a strong political connotation (hence the passage you quote...)

As for the Yellow (good) Sect fighting the Black Sect (evil, probably, as in star wars, the darker the couture, the worse they are...), I believe that this mixture of black magic, secret society, evil vs good, all set in "mystic tibet" was just too good to pass for film makers...

Note that these colour names are popular names. The four schools are usually referred to by their "serious" names.
Francois

[Lin Duanwen]

there are 5 sects, yellow, white, red, black, mixed花.

Tibetan Buddhism belongs to Vajrayana Buddhism (金刚乘)。Black sect (黑教) does not belong to Tibetan Buddhism, it was the original/native religion in Tibet before Buddhism came in. The original name is known as Bon (笨教)。Demons and devils of Bon were defeated by Padmasambhava (莲花生大士) and later became the protectors (护法) of Vajrayana Buddhism.

[snowybeagle]

I believe that originally, these "colour" sects (schools would probably be a better word, I think) referred to something similar to the monk orders in europe (franciscans, dominicans, jesuits etc...).

I'd think the difference is too great for such comparisons.

The European "colours" -
Grey Friars - Order of Friars Minor / Franciscans - named after Francis of Assisi,
Black Monks - Order of Saint Benedict,
Black Friars - Order of Preachers / Dominicans
etc.,
all submit to the Pope.

The Buddhist red, yellow sects etc. were independent and a law unto themselves.

[Loong]

I am going through the list of "Directory List of Important Info Threads" and would slowly work my way through the list. I guess this is as good as a place to start.

Buddhism is only ONE religion, with the ultimate aim of gaining enlightment (nirvana/nibbana). As one can read on Buddhism in Wikipedia, the definitive source of scriptures/teaching are from the Tripitaka (which there are many versions available.) [1]. All sutra (e.g. prajnaparamita, surangama, etc are extracted from Tripitaka).

The buddhism sect which one now identifies with colour are the tibetian buddhism branch, which has two core section, one is the vajrayana section (密) from the tripitaka, and the transmission (through oral, terma) post Sakyamuni buddha.

Simplistically, the colours is elaborated at Wikipedia.

To fully understand the sects of buddhism (tibetian sects), the definitive guide will be:

The Crystal Mirror of Philosophical Systems: A Tibetan Study of Asian Religious Thought (Library of Tibetan Classics) by Nyima Chokyi Thuken, Roger Jackson and Geshe Lhundub Sopa (Apr 1, 2009)

This is originally in tibetian, and translated as part of the Wisdom Publications Tibetian Classical Series. This is the officially accepted intepretation and in English. I would stay away from wikipedia for the details, as it may have inconsistencies with the detailed traditions.


Note:
1. Source of reference is Taiwan published Tripitaka version [xin siu da zhen zhang]. For those interested, a free CD comprising the total of 100+ vol can be obtained. [www.cbeta.org]


24 post to go before exams......