208 replies to this topic

[Lesterado Molotov]

About shaved heads for people other than monks...maybe some people did it, but wasn't your hair one of your most precious and respected things?  Wasn't one of the reasons many common people protested the Qing haircut (not counting resentment against the foreign government) because your hair is what your parents gave you, and you shouldn't cut it off?

Ok, most Chinese are peasants living below subsistence level. This is the group of people whom I am referring to. They are the neglected backbone of China, even till today. The paintings are mostly of town / city folks. The city dwellers and intellectuals protested against the hair shaving policy, whilst the country folks were pretty docile. To get an idea of what these ancient guys looked like, you can refer to the old photos of the late Qing and Republican period. You can also read Edgar Snow's "Red Star over China". Yes, women are supposed to preserve their modesty, but in Edgar's book, for some very poor folks, things were quite different. This showed how bad life were in the past. Most ancient Chinese were more concerned with food rather than getting yarns of cotton / silk so that the textile could be sewn into gowns that modern period drama serial fantasizes about so frequently.

[Snafu]

Walking around half-naked...that seems like it would embarass everyone in the streets to death, at least in a sizeable town. I kinda believe it that people really don't care about modesty in the villages.

Depends on the city. Jacob D'Acona's description of Song-era Quanzhou makes it seem like a pretty wild place filled with plenty of half-naked women who slept around pretty freely and openly. There are plenty of stories of debauchery and immodesty in other cities too.

The Chinese have always had their idea of "moral values", but not every citizen follows those ideas. And some people reject them entirely. That was true in ancient times too. In a way people really haven't changed at all since the earliest times.

Edited by Snafu, 01 July 2005 - 11:42 PM.

[TMPikachu]

Living conditions (for peasants and the majority of people) was higher than that in Europe up untill the late 1700's.

19-20th century was the lowest points of power in Chinese history, they had suffered a problem with population explosion because too many people were being born and not enough dying! This strained the food supply and lowered the living conditions for everyone though. But the source of that problem came from 'too much' prosperity in a way.

[ShanXiYan]

Ok, most Chinese are peasants living below subsistence level.  This is the group of people whom I am referring to.  They are the neglected backbone of China, even till today. The paintings are mostly of town / city folks.  The city dwellers and intellectuals protested against the hair shaving policy, whilst the country folks were pretty docile. To get an idea of what these ancient guys looked like, you can refer to the old photos of the late Qing and Republican period.  You can also read Edgar Snow's "Red Star over China".  Yes, women are supposed to preserve their modesty, but in Edgar's book, for some very poor folks, things were quite different.  This showed how bad life were in the past.  Most ancient Chinese were more concerned with food rather than getting yarns of cotton / silk so that the textile could be sewn into gowns that modern period drama serial fantasizes about so frequently.

Sure, in the ancient times (and even now) there was a sharp division between the wealthy and the poor, and accordingly, they had different styles of dress and different standards of modesty and virtue. As the saying goes: until your belly is full, you have no honor. So yeah, maybe the peasants protested less against the Qing hairstyle because they were too busy surviving, but I believe the majority of ancient China's history did not have people willingly slicing off their hair unless they were going off to become a monk/nun.

And what does being a dirt-poor peasant have to do with shaving your head? Just because you're poor doesn't mean that you don't respect your parents and the body that they gave you, does it? Maybe some people did shave their heads, to keep cool in the fields or for some other reason, but I don't think this was a common trend among anyone, even the peasants.

Just by saying that people probably didn't all walk around with no tops doesn't mean I don't think there was no indecency and immodesty. I agree, human nature doesn't change much in many ways I just didn't think wandering around a town naked from the waist up was considered the respectable norm, but I'm nowhere near an expert on these things.

[浪淘音]

is there like a section of different clothings for different dynasty? besides qing i can't recognised any other dynasty.

which dynasty is this from?

obviously Song dynasty

you can tell from how tight the sleeves are

[Koolasuchus]

u sure? the first pic is from the film Six Fingered Demon Lute 2004, i could never placed what era it was in but they look pretty modern to be that long ago.

the second pic is from 5 Ladies pays b'day respect (lit translate)2003, its not a very good pic. i'll post another one.

The only Demon Lute that I know of is the famous concubine of Shang Zhou Wang described in Fengshen Yanyi. If that's what that film is about, then she is pre-Qin.

[Sephodwyrm]

The film has nothing to do with the Jadestone Pipa Spirit.

[Klamath]

This is a disputed old photo of Vietnam in 1915. If it is true, it can provide some evidence what the ancient chinese cloth look like.
For more, http://forum1.cul.si...36&itemid=94603 here is the link

[jiangji]

This is a disputed old photo of  Vietnam in 1915. If it  is true, it can provide some evidence what the ancient chinese cloth look like.
For more, http://forum1.cul.si...36&itemid=94603 here is the link

The uniform look very similar to the one in Ming dynasty.

Edited by jiangji, 06 July 2005 - 01:48 AM.

[tieu_yeu_nu]

i thought this thread was talking about Han clothing?

why r we talking about shaved heads and half naked people?

does anyone have pictures or drawings of Han clothing that they know are real?

[AhMan]

the color of Han court clothes is black right? Is red always the national color of China?

Edited by AhMan, 07 July 2005 - 11:32 AM.

[AhMan]

that picture looks a bit too good to be taken in 1915... but it's hard to see common people in the background.

[wlee15]

Here's a picture of King Dong Khanh reigning 1885-1889.

[naruwan]

The picture looks pretty authentic. It's one of those black and white photos that had color painted on it.

My family used to collect turn of the century post cards. They look just like this.

I have one of 站籠 Zan Long. Which was a form of punishment in some parts of China. Where the criminals are made to stand in these cages for days until they die.