64 replies to this topic

[General_Zhaoyun]

It seems that Mao has been much appraised in PRC's chinese history text. I've read that he has not just been described as a capable military leader, but also a political figure, poet, revolutionist...

Mao seems to vision himself as the new "Qinshihuang" by declaring PRC as a "new China" when it was founded in 1949. He called the civil war from 1945-1949 as a "Liberation" war , seeming to liberate China from years of imperialism, foreign incursion and feudalistic decadence.

No doubt, Mao's military capability was exemplified by his victory in the chinese civil war against the nationalist, in Korean war, War against India, Russia etc.. but is he a truly good political ruler?

Some scholars argued that without Mao, there would be no great leap forward, no cultural revolution and China would not have to waste 30 years of closing up its door to the outside world, plunging itself into economic stagnantation.

My question is :

1. On what merit is Mao's influence on modern Chinese history?

2. Do you think China would be better off without Mao?

3. Do you think it was necessary for China to have Mao to make China into a global power?

[Sephodwyrm]

So many lives were lost during the cultural revolution. They cannot be bought back. But Mao did one thing that I think Chiang Kai Shek is incapable of, which is to deny the US or the USSR into carving China up and to maintain Chinese prestige in the field of international politics, braving a few wars to make his point (Korean War).

And plus, his son was killed in that war. I can't think of any other modern leader that did so.

[Zuo Zongtang]

If it weren't for Mao, China would be a "vassal" state of the US, kissing her feet to get aid. Had China sided with Russia, then China would be a backwards, third world nation, who lost all say in the world after the collapse of the Soviet Union. Or China could be a slice of terrortory belonging to the Japanese Army. Mao stopped all of that from comming true. He was the one who finally told Jiang Jie Shi to stop fighting a civil war and concentrate on the Japanese invaders. Had Communist and Nationalist forces not held up the Japanese troops for so long, Japan might have more troops to spare for other regions, preventing America from reconquering territory. Had Mao not advocated a policy where China relied on China alone, then China would just be another country that sucked up to America or Russia, a country without any real place in the world

[Sephodwyrm]

Right, but the communists and Zhang ganged up together to make Chiang agree to cease fire and the formation of the United Front.

[janz]

but Mao is a poet.....

[General_Zhaoyun]

I've read before Mao's poems and it was indeed good..anyway, Mao was previously a librarian and his literary skills are good

[Wei Lung]

It seems that Mao has been much appraised in PRC's chinese history text. I've read that he has not just been described as a capable military leader, but also a political figure, poet, revolutionist...

Mao seems to vision himself as the new "Qinshihuang" by declaring PRC as a "new China" when it was founded in 1949. He called the civil war from 1945-1949 as a "Liberation" war , seeming to liberate China from years of imperialism, foreign incursion and feudalistic decadence.

No doubt, Mao's military capability was exemplified by his victory in the chinese civil war against the nationalist, in Korean war, War against India, Russia etc.. but is he a truly good political ruler?

Some scholars argued that without Mao, there would be no great leap forward, no cultural revolution and China would not have to waste 30 years of closing up its door to the outside world, plunging itself into economic stagnantation.

My question is :

1. On what merit is Mao's influence on modern Chinese history?

2. Do you think China would be better off without Mao?

3. Do you think it was necessary for China to have Mao to make China into a global power?

1. Without Mao, there would be No Deng Xiaoping, thus, China would most likely be an inferior country on the world stage. Unless of course Chiang Kai-Shek could do for China what he did for Taiwan, but i believe this is quite unlikely.

2. As i said, without Mao there would be no Deng Xiaoping, and unless Chiang was able to do for China what he did for taiwan, i'd say despite Mao's Tyrrany, it could have been worse.

3. It was not nessecary to have Mao, but it was nessecary to have Deng, Zhongshan and Zedong are the two steps to Xiaoping.

[MattW]

It seems that Mao has been much appraised in PRC's chinese history text. I've read that he has not just been described as a capable military leader, but also a political figure, poet, revolutionist...

Mao seems to vision himself as the new "Qinshihuang" by declaring PRC as a "new China" when it was founded in 1949. He called the civil war from 1945-1949 as a "Liberation" war , seeming to liberate China from years of imperialism, foreign incursion and feudalistic decadence.

No doubt, Mao's military capability was exemplified by his victory in the chinese civil war against the nationalist, in Korean war, War against India, Russia etc.. but is he a truly good political ruler?

Some scholars argued that without Mao, there would be no great leap forward, no cultural revolution and China would not have to waste 30 years of closing up its door to the outside world, plunging itself into economic stagnantation.

My question is :

1. On what merit is Mao's influence on modern Chinese history?

2. Do you think China would be better off without Mao?

3. Do you think it was necessary for China to have Mao to make China into a global power?

1. The official CCP line is that Mao was 70% good and 30% bad, but i think his effect on Modern Chinese History is worse than this assessment. Although he scored some diplomatic successes, put China in the nuclear club and formed the new Chinese People's Republic, as has already been pointed out there are many negatives to his legacy. Mao destroyed Chinese culture and heritage in the Cultiral Revolution, and also obliterated the concept of family and family values through the co-operative and commune system. The deaths of millions of people also lie firmly on Mao's shoulders- it is hard to see merit in the legacy of someone who drove millions to suicide, initiated a policy that led to a widespread and disastrous famine e.t.c...

2. I am not sure China would be better off without Mao. I feel Mao was necessary for China to cast off the chains of dynastic rule and embrace people's governance- without Mao i think that the PRC would not have been established in 1949, or maybe would not have lasted after its founding. If this were the case, China would be alot worse off than it is now. China would certainly be better off without Mao's policies from 1966 onwards however.

3. Yes- as i have already mentioned, Mao's period in power saw China join the nuclear club without the development of its A-Bomb in the later 1950s, and Mao also scored diplomatic successes like the visit of President Nixon that were the first sign that China was on the rise to becoming a global superpower.

[Chen06]

He did so much damage culturally that no matter what he did diplomatically,militarily,etc... I can only see China being better off without his stupid Cultural Revolution and Great Leap Forward. By putting the common peasant on a pedestal, he probably set China's ethics,family values,etc a few hundred years back. You can still feel it even today..ex - when I went to China(Shanghai), I was disgusted with the way that everyone just spit all over the street, cut in line and didnt queue up, urinated in public(more rarely), and what put me off the most was when some guy got in the taxi that I had called over. He just cut right in front of me and jumped in. Not to mention that he killed millions of his own people and economically set China a hundred years back with his stupid Great Leap Forward. Though we will never know, I tend to think that if it werent for now, China would already be a superpower- like Japan. The economy would probably be somewhat like Taiwan but on a much larger and more epic scale. Atleast in Taiwan, I dont have to watch where I step in fear of stepping on someones mucus or try to dodge some spit that some guy in front of non-chalantly spits out.

[MattW]

He did so much damage culturally that no matter what he did diplomatically,militarily,etc... I can only see China being better off without his stupid Cultural Revolution and Great Leap Forward. By putting the common peasant on a pedestal, he probably set China's ethics,family values,etc a few hundred years back. You can still feel it even today..ex - when I went to China(Shanghai), I was disgusted with the way that everyone just spit all over the street, cut in line and didnt queue up, urinated in public(more rarely), and what put me off the most was when some guy got in the taxi that I had called over. He just cut right in front of me and jumped in. Not to mention that he killed millions of his own people and economically set China a hundred years back with his stupid Great Leap Forward. Though we will never know, I tend to think that if it werent for now, China would already be a superpower- like Japan. The economy would probably be somewhat like Taiwan but on a much larger and more epic scale. Atleast in Taiwan, I dont have to watch where I step in fear of stepping on someones mucus or try to dodge some spit that some guy in front of non-chalantly spits out.

I see what you're saying here- why do you think that China would be a superpower now if Mao had never been involved? Because i think the opposite- i feel that China would be far from a superpower if it weren't for Mao. What's the basis for your view?

[Chen06]

Well, Sun Yat Sen did have a whole plan laid out for China regarding how it should modernize it self but after he died it was just never carried out. CKS was rather incompetent so I should rephrase my statement. I think that if China had followed Sun's plan to modernization and if they had a leader capable of doing it they would be a superpower now. Not to mention that China would have maintained so much more of its traditional culture and heritage. It was CKS that ordered for all those irreplaceable cultural artifacts to be brought across China to Taiwan in order to save it from being destroyed by the Communist regime as well as Japanese bombing during the war. If you have ever been to the museum and saw all the stuff there you would definitely get a feeling of regret - regretting how much was destroyed by Mao's regime during the Cultural Revolution..but also relief - relief that atleast this much has been saved.

[MattW]

Well, Sun Yat Sen did have a whole plan laid out for China regarding how it should modernize it self but after he died it was just never carried out. CKS was rather incompetent so I should rephrase my statement. I think that if China had followed Sun's plan to modernization and if they had a leader capable of doing it they would be a superpower now. Not to mention that China would have maintained so much more of its traditional culture and heritage. It was CKS that ordered for all those irreplaceable cultural artifacts to be brought across China to Taiwan in order to save it from being destroyed by the Communist regime as well as Japanese bombing during the war. If you have ever been to the museum and saw all the stuff there you would definitely get a feeling of regret - regretting how much was destroyed by Mao's regime during the Cultural Revolution..but also relief - relief that atleast this much has been saved.

Fair enough, but would you rather have had 1) a China developing without Mao but also without a leader capable of following Sun Yat Sen's plan or 2) A China developing with Mao. Which one?