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Mao's influence on modern chinese history


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#46 ahxiang

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Posted 04 July 2009 - 09:41 PM

Thank you, Howard Fu, and all sharing their opinions here!
I have cited both positive and negative points of view about Stalin and Mao, as each person and situation has the same. So what we can do now is learn from history for the future, learn to tell good from bad. And I recall a phrase from one Russian recent movie about Brezhnev regarding him “He is a good man but being a good man isn’t an occupation yet”. In Russia nowadays politics is often considered being dirty thing in ordinary people's mind. We have easily admitted our socialistic past was a mistake, but this is a part of phenomenon of times or generations gap, existing in Russia and inappropriate in China where people worship their historical past. I also hope Russia will become stronger but now our people's attitude to improvement leaves much to be desired…And despite there are mostly overseas Chinese participating in discussion I trust their opinion because they are thinking and accomplished people and they use facts to explain their points of view.



I will clarify here as to what background I have. I was from mainland China, not someone who was raised overseas as Howard claimed. The reason I had come to possess different view from Howard's was that since about 1983-4 around, I came to contact with English language books that were not abridged versions that were allowed in China. One teacher of mine, who was teaching English around the world all her life, set up a library in my university, and brought in cases of books whenever she came to China. Through those books, I acquired some knowledge into true history. I first found out how the Korean War was started, what Mao's AB League Purge was about, etc etc.

My family history had some impact. However, my father was not the kind of person who dared to say a negative word about the communist regime. He told me about how his teacher was killed in early 1950s, how he went to Ussuri for farming, and how he lived and worked with KMT prisoners, Korea War returnees, and leftists, ... As to the inhuman nature of communism, I had personal observations of the mass parade, of course. However, when I was in junior high, I was still touting the communist revolution by enumerating the victories of PLA in Huaihai, Yangtze, and etc. One middle school teacher personally went over my essay on the Huangqiao Battle, which was a communist elimination campaign against the government troops in 1940, the direct fuse that preceded the New Fourth Army incident of 1941. At that time, I could not make a judgment as to the cause and effect, not to mention linking up the flow of events like 1940 vs 1941. I was curious about Taiwan - because of some young man being paraded as a reactionary for listening to enemy radio stations. I tuned in to Voice of Free CHina, and heard quite a bit about Miss Deng Lijun's visiting the Taiwan Army, Navy and Air Force for singing songs. Taiwan radio was touting how many agents they had on mainland China. Like agent No. this, your task was this; agent No. that, your task was that, etc. That's my memory about the enemy radio. My father told me about his uncle in Taiwan, as well as the story about my grandfather who fought the guerrilla war against Japan in the Yangtze Delta. I was interested in finding out more, but my information was limited. I could only acquire this info after I came to the US.

Now about the interpretations of the Chinese communist revolution. The problem I have with the official version of history is that they tried to make up the cause and effect by fabricating the theme of popular support and people's support. This was also the theme of Fairbanks and his students. I figure that it is real easy to talk about how the Chinese Communists ascended to power. History is a good mirror. You have Waterloo which determined Napoleon's fate. You have Napoleon's campaign against Moscow versus Hitler's campaign against Leningrad/Stalingrad. Now, it was easy to say the cases of Hitler and Napoleon were the same. However, there was a fundamental difference. Napoleon was exhausted by the winter in Moscow, but Hitler was exhausted by the tilting balance of power that was the United States lend-lease aid to Stalin. Stalin would not have allowed the Russian people to know that it was the massive US aid that secured the fate of the Soviet Union, though. For China, the loss of the ROC regime was no less an event than that of a battle at Waterloo or Hitler's debacle in Moscow, which were the equivalemnts of the campaigns of Liao-shen; Huai-hai and Ping-jin. As long as you have a correct understanding of the events surrounding the three campaigns, the myth of the Chinese communist revolution is debunked.

Some correction: I thought Stalin was a non-Jew. The following link showed that Stalin's original name in the Georgian language "shvili" means son of, and "Djuga" means Jew. Stalin's name "Kochba" was the leader of the "Jews during one of the anti-Roman uprisings of the Jews."
http://www.jewwatch....ers-stalin.html
I have to admit that I needed to catch up with the continuous dig.

Edited by ahxiang, 11 July 2009 - 09:18 PM.

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#47 Willa Catha

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Posted 02 December 2009 - 03:54 PM

Thank you, Howard Fu, and all sharing their opinions here!
I have cited both positive and negative points of view about Stalin and Mao, as each person and situation has the same. So what we can do now is learn from history for the future, learn to tell good from bad. And I recall a phrase from one Russian recent movie about Brezhnev regarding him “He is a good man but being a good man isn’t an occupation yet”. In Russia nowadays politics is often considered being dirty thing in ordinary people's mind. We have easily admitted our socialistic past was a mistake, but this is a part of phenomenon of times or generations gap, existing in Russia and inappropriate in China where people worship their historical past. I also hope Russia will become stronger but now our people's attitude to improvement leaves much to be desired…And despite there are mostly overseas Chinese participating in discussion I trust their opinion because they are thinking and accomplished people and they use facts to explain their points of view.


Hi Marinka -

Your post was sometime ago, but I share your sentiment.

I'm interested in this modern period, the last 100 years or so, of Chinese history. Books, I can find, from the West, from the East, and they all will have interpretations of the governments, whether they did right to the people, wrong to the people, and they can get heated, which I completely understand.

What I know I will never find is truly the voice of the people of the period - that vast, silent majority, the ones who never had the opportunity to step close to the podium, never found any education to speak their minds at all. Muted. As if they never existed at all. And I know, it's those people, with the collapse of the Qing, then the newly formed Republic, into the Warlord period, and progressing further into the People's Nation, they who bore the most suffering.

But I must not cry for them, only, because to see only the Chinese, is to ignore the rest of the world, with the other peoples, at the time, who were all feeling the same, due to industrialization, due to migrations, due to persecutions, labor movements, blah, blah, blah, blah.

I almost wanted, to offer just one such person a microphone, and say, "Sir, tell me, was the world just? to you, and family?" Most likely, what I'd probably get is just a dumb smile.

Which, in the grand scheme of things, isn't too bad. Maybe most weren't very eager to be heard in the books of history, anyway. What is history, can't fill my stomach, right?

Maybe this internet thing is like that elusive microphone, finally, a penny for your long, overlooked thoughts, people of the world! :)

#48 xifangren

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Posted 03 December 2009 - 04:26 PM

Unless one is privy to all the infightings within the CCP, it is hard to state what Mao's impacts have been for China. Some of the CCP's achievements and blunders may have been in spite of Mao.

I think the Great Cultural Revolution has been the greatest detriment to China and I believe the CR was due mostly to Mao's radicalism inspired by his fervor to remain in power.

Would all of China be more like Taiwan today without Mao? It is hard to say, but what is wrong about being more like Taiwan and closer to the USA? Nothing.

All of China could have stood up against quasi-colonialism and imperialism without Mao or the CCP. Look at the decolonialization of Latin America and Africa. The West, a couple of decades after WWII at least, has become much more socially progressive; both racism and imperial tendency have greatly diminished as part and parcel of social progress within the Western societies. This would have been an unavoidable trend, regardless of Mao or the CCP. I would say even that a lot of China recent economic progress has been due to diminution of racism in the Western consumers, and also the belief in free trade that was not as robust a hundred years ago when Japan was industrializing.

I can name several very concrete, lasting, and profoundly important contributions of the CCP. They are not necessarily brilliant but seminal nonetheless.

1. Equality of the sexes.

2. Promotion of the spoken language PTH. The willingness to use Romanized pinyin, the willing to create a Chinese dictionary based on pinyin and A-Z is a profound achievement, despite the history of British colonialism and the Opium War. The willingness to accept the dominance of the English alphabets, a part of the English Language. Taiwan lags far behind.

3. Land reform

4. Broadening basic education in preparation to the current economic expansion.


The significance of the CCP revolution has been much more within China than against the West of the world. The CCP revolution has been a class struggle within China, not against Western colonialism. The elitists may not accept, but China, like many old civilizations, had a profound class problem.

Edited by xifangren, 03 December 2009 - 04:34 PM.


#49 Lu Su

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 09:28 AM

This topic really inspired some great replies. =) You guys all know what I think of him, so I won't ruin this one with my thoughts. lol

#50 special pig

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 10:14 AM

Mao always is a interesting topic, if Chinese history are discussed. He is a symbol. People who like mao shall say that he unified china, he let Chinese people stand……. And so on. Just repeat china Communist Party’s propaganda. People who dislike or hate mao shall say mao was a dictator, and totally destroyed Chinese traditional culture, he caused millions Chinese people die…… to appraise chairman mao without fear or favor. I think you must go to the grassroots of china. To feel their experience. Ignore any positive propaganda from China communist party and negative propaganda from anti-communism.
Honestly, I have a negative opinion about chairman mao. I was typical common person who totally changed his opinion form respect to dislike.
About your question, my answer:
1. It is 34 years since mao died. If you go to china mainland, you can not see any positive influence on Chinese society. Except mao’s huge picture is hanging on the tian an men wall. Today, china is more richer than 30 years ago when he ruled china. We should thank deng xiao ping for his economic reform. Maybe mao contributed a little bit for this reform. Mao completely destroy existing society inherited from kuomintang. His government took almost all the resource and property from individual. China government controlled every thing, even common people’s freedom and liberty. After he died, deng Xiaoping took over. then Mr. deng had super power to carry on his economic reform. There was not any thing to hamper his reform. Like farming, mao wiped out the weed in the field, Mr. deng seed in the field. But I wonder whether Chinese people paid too much for wiping out the weed?!
2. It is no meaning to assume history. But history assumption is a way to understand some figure or event’s importance in history. Without mao, china would be better. During mao’s ruling, million people died, because his wrong policy and mistake or just his measure to defeat his rival. Mao tried to destroy Chinese traditional culture. To maintain his supreme power, he could use any despicable strategy and means. Completely disregarded whether these strategy and means destroyed ethic of society or humankind. If Common people wanted to survive under mao’s rule, he/she must learned selfishness. Inhospitality, and ignored any ethic. So today the first decade of 21st century, there are many ugly things happened in Chinese mainland. To seize money and power, most people trample the law and justice without any guilty conscience.
Though I dislike mao, but I admitted mao was a remarkable born politician in Chinese history, even world history. Using modern technology, he created an alive god himself for Chinese people. he push absolutism to climax. Even today china absolutism government founded by mao runs effectively. When republic of china was founded in 1911, the liberty and democracy was widely accepted by Chinese society. Some person disliked the democracy because their own ambition. But they did not dare to object to democracy publicly. But Now, after 100 years, liberty and democracy are still taboo in Chinese society.

3. I believe mao slowed down china to become a true global power. After world war II, to maintain the world peace. the UN was founded. China has been one of five important Permanent members of united nation security council. Why? Because china has one quarter of population of the world. The people who have lived in the land created a unique culture. In the most time of history, china was strongest nation in the world. Nobody can look down on Chinese people, else he must pay price. Try to image, if china mainland is as rich as Taiwan. China became the super power already. But now China has many territorial disputations with neighbor nation:Japan, Russia, india, Vietnam…….and so on. Has USA some territorial disputations with other nation? Thanks deng xiao ping, common Chinese people like me, have a chance to go abroad. I can feel that most foreigner envy American people’s life. But if mentioned Chinese people, most of them did not show any respects. If china was a global power, why is there huge difference between Chinese common people and American common people?

Edited by special pig, 01 November 2010 - 10:14 AM.


#51 huangsx

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Posted 22 November 2010 - 11:05 AM

In chairman MAO era, Chinese people's unity is unprecedented, his merits in deng xiaoping era have already made an impartial judge.
但使龍城飛將在 不教胡馬度陰山
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#52 baybal

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Posted 08 February 2011 - 10:40 PM

There was not any thing to hamper his reform. Like farming, mao wiped out the weed in the field, Mr. deng seed in the field. But I wonder whether Chinese people paid too much for wiping out the weed?!

Mao wiped the wheat and seeded in weed. That's how I think about him and his communism. Maoists credit liberation from colonialism for him, but they forgot to attribute that the guy himself and his regime was a Soviet set up marionette.

#53 moao

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Posted 25 March 2011 - 08:36 AM

Mao wiped the wheat and seeded in weed. That's how I think about him and his communism. Maoists credit liberation from colonialism for him, but they forgot to attribute that the guy himself and his regime was a Soviet set up marionette.

And this marionette carried on a war with Soviet,and developed the atom bomb under Soviet's opposition. He was a great marionette. Mao called himself 秦始皇(Qin Shi Huang)+Karl Marx, whick i think is reasonable.

#54 moao

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Posted 25 March 2011 - 09:14 AM

Mao always is a interesting topic, if Chinese history are discussed. He is a symbol. People who like mao shall say that he unified china, he let Chinese people stand……. And so on. Just repeat china Communist Party’s propaganda. People who dislike or hate mao shall say mao was a dictator, and totally destroyed Chinese traditional culture, he caused millions Chinese people die…… to appraise chairman mao without fear or favor. I think you must go to the grassroots of china. To feel their experience. Ignore any positive propaganda from China communist party and negative propaganda from anti-communism.
Honestly, I have a negative opinion about chairman mao. I was typical common person who totally changed his opinion form respect to dislike.
About your question, my answer:
1. It is 34 years since mao died. If you go to china mainland, you can not see any positive influence on Chinese society. Except mao’s huge picture is hanging on the tian an men wall. Today, china is more richer than 30 years ago when he ruled china. We should thank deng xiao ping for his economic reform. Maybe mao contributed a little bit for this reform. Mao completely destroy existing society inherited from kuomintang. His government took almost all the resource and property from individual. China government controlled every thing, even common people’s freedom and liberty. After he died, deng Xiaoping took over. then Mr. deng had super power to carry on his economic reform. There was not any thing to hamper his reform. Like farming, mao wiped out the weed in the field, Mr. deng seed in the field. But I wonder whether Chinese people paid too much for wiping out the weed?!
2. It is no meaning to assume history. But history assumption is a way to understand some figure or event’s importance in history. Without mao, china would be better. During mao’s ruling, million people died, because his wrong policy and mistake or just his measure to defeat his rival. Mao tried to destroy Chinese traditional culture. To maintain his supreme power, he could use any despicable strategy and means. Completely disregarded whether these strategy and means destroyed ethic of society or humankind. If Common people wanted to survive under mao’s rule, he/she must learned selfishness. Inhospitality, and ignored any ethic. So today the first decade of 21st century, there are many ugly things happened in Chinese mainland. To seize money and power, most people trample the law and justice without any guilty conscience.
Though I dislike mao, but I admitted mao was a remarkable born politician in Chinese history, even world history. Using modern technology, he created an alive god himself for Chinese people. he push absolutism to climax. Even today china absolutism government founded by mao runs effectively. When republic of china was founded in 1911, the liberty and democracy was widely accepted by Chinese society. Some person disliked the democracy because their own ambition. But they did not dare to object to democracy publicly. But Now, after 100 years, liberty and democracy are still taboo in Chinese society.

3. I believe mao slowed down china to become a true global power. After world war II, to maintain the world peace. the UN was founded. China has been one of five important Permanent members of united nation security council. Why? Because china has one quarter of population of the world. The people who have lived in the land created a unique culture. In the most time of history, china was strongest nation in the world. Nobody can look down on Chinese people, else he must pay price. Try to image, if china mainland is as rich as Taiwan. China became the super power already. But now China has many territorial disputations with neighbor nation:Japan, Russia, india, Vietnam…….and so on. Has USA some territorial disputations with other nation? Thanks deng xiao ping, common Chinese people like me, have a chance to go abroad. I can feel that most foreigner envy American people’s life. But if mentioned Chinese people, most of them did not show any respects. If china was a global power, why is there huge difference between Chinese common people and American common people?


i agree on most of your viewpoints, but i think mao's work is about 50% achievements and 50% mistakes. Today, 34 years after mao's death, and 60 years after "new china" founded, we maybe think mao did a bad job, and Kuomintang did a good job in taiwan. But, think of it, in 1945, when Japanese just left china, the country under the rule of Kuomintang was hopeless. mao inherited nothing from kuomintang, not only because of the destroy that result from the war, but also the depravation of kuomintang. why kuomintang failed? PLA failed some battles too. kuomintang failed because it was going to collapse.

#55 wredsa

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Posted 25 March 2011 - 07:59 PM

i agree on most of your viewpoints, but i think mao's work is about 50% achievements and 50% mistakes. Today, 34 years after mao's death, and 60 years after "new china" founded, we maybe think mao did a bad job, and Kuomintang did a good job in taiwan. But, think of it, in 1945, when Japanese just left china, the country under the rule of Kuomintang was hopeless. mao inherited nothing from kuomintang, not only because of the destroy that result from the war, but also the depravation of kuomintang. why kuomintang failed? PLA failed some battles too. kuomintang failed because it was going to collapse.


It is to be noted that Taiwan was 1000 times less populated than PRC, so Yankee aid could influence Taiwan more efficiently. If KMT had control of all of CHina they too would face trouble to feed the population.

#56 mariusj

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Posted 25 March 2011 - 08:46 PM

It is to be noted that Taiwan was 1000 times less populated than PRC, so Yankee aid could influence Taiwan more efficiently. If KMT had control of all of CHina they too would face trouble to feed the population.

And the Yankee would like to ask you, what aid did the Yankee give?

Would you also like people use the word chinese?

#57 hpyp

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Posted 02 July 2011 - 07:17 PM

And the Yankee would like to ask you, what aid did the Yankee give?


"From 1950 to 1965, Taiwan received a total of $1.5 billion in economic aid and $2.4 billion in military aid from the United States." (http://en.wikipedia....story_of_Taiwan)

#58 cookle

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 02:54 AM

Can anyone provide sources of praises for Mao by foreign leaders (and western media)at Mao's death?

#59 mariusj

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 03:38 AM

"From 1950 to 1965, Taiwan received a total of $1.5 billion in economic aid and $2.4 billion in military aid from the United States." (http://en.wikipedia....story_of_Taiwan)

If anyone thinks 3.9 billion $ over 15 year is a large sum of money for any government.......

#60 cookle

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 05:05 AM

If anyone thinks 3.9 billion $ over 15 year is a large sum of money for any government.......


An important fact is the US was the defender of Taiwan so the small island government could use whatever they had to develop the economy without worrying too much about the military cost. As comparison the Mainland faced threats from not only the west but also from the north latter, under the cold war context, you can imagine how much money you need to protect yourself.




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