[General_Zhaoyun]

1Gsz, on May 17 2009, 12:08 AM, said:

Anyone?

Btw, the ancient Yue Kingdom was Ming-Yue (not Nan-Yue) and located somewhere around present-day south of Shanghai in eastern China right?

It depends on which Yue Kingdoms you're referring to. There are several.

If you're talking about the famous story of Fan Li of Yue and Xi Shi, that's during Spring/Autumn period and there is only one Yue kingdom (known as Yue Guo 越国"). It's situated around today's Zhejiang province (south of Shanghai). However, during Han dynasty, this region was populated by an ethnic people known as "Ou Yue 瓯越" (not Min Yue or Nan Yue), which formed part of the so-called "Bai Yue" 百越 ethnic of the South.

[1Gsz]

General_Zhaoyun, on May 18 2009, 01:04 AM, said:

It depends on which Yue Kingdoms you're referring to. There are several.

If you're talking about the famous story of Fan Li of Yue and Xi Shi, that's during Spring/Autumn period and there is only one Yue kingdom (known as Yue Guo 越国"). It's situated around today's Zhejiang province (south of Shanghai). However, during Han dynasty, this region was populated by an ethnic people known as "Ou Yue 瓯越" (not Min Yue or Nan Yue), which formed part of the so-called "Bai Yue" 百越 ethnic of the South.

Thanks for the info General_Zhaoyun, yeah I was searching for FanLi-XiShi's Yue Guo. Do you know what modern-ethnic is this ancient-ethnic OuYue people become today? are they still living in Zhejiang or some in Shanghai?

Btw, is there any special thread on this OuYue people/Yue Guo? and also the other Yue Kingdoms to read for more details? because I am searching for Liang surname that was living in one of those Yue Kingdoms before they moved to Shanxi in the ancient time.

Appreciate your help.

This post has been edited by 1Gsz: 18 May 2009 - 09:59 AM

[General_Zhaoyun]

1Gsz, on May 18 2009, 10:54 PM, said:

Thanks for the info General_Zhaoyun, yeah I was searching for FanLi-XiShi's Yue Guo. Do you know what modern-ethnic is this ancient-ethnic OuYue people become today? are they still living in Zhejiang or some in Shanghai?

The ancient ethnic "Ou Yue people" no longer existed today (as an ethnic group). It existed only as a historical term in Chinese history to refer to an ancient ethnic group. Today, the Chinese living in Zhejiang are a mix of descent from the ancient Ou Yue people and various other han-chinese who migrated to Zhejiang province in Chinese history. They are today simply classified as "han-chinese", but spoke a "Wu-Yue" (or simply "Wu") dialect that could be traced all the way back to the ancient languages spoken by Wu and Yue kingdoms during Spring/Autumn period.

People in Shanghai (so-called Shanghainese) are generally descendents of migrants from Jiangsu and Zhejiang province during 19th and 20th century. In Spring/Autumn period, Jiangsu was the Wu kingdom, while Zhejiang was the Yue kingdom. So typically, this region is often known as "Wu-Yue" region. The Shanghainese spoke the Shanghainese dialect, a Wu dialect that have some form of roots from the language spoken by Wu kingdom.

Quote

Btw, is there any special thread on this OuYue people/Yue Guo? and also the other Yue Kingdoms to read for more details? because I am searching for Liang surname that was living in one of those Yue Kingdoms before they moved to Shanxi in the ancient time.

Appreciate your help.

Refer to
http://www.chinahist...?showtopic=3798

This post has been edited by General_Zhaoyun: 18 May 2009 - 11:01 AM

[1Gsz]

General_Zhaoyun, on May 18 2009, 10:57 AM, said:

The ancient ethnic "Ou Yue people" no longer existed today (as an ethnic group). It existed only as a historical term in Chinese history to refer to an ancient ethnic group. Today, the Chinese living in Zhejiang are a mix of descent from the ancient Ou Yue people and various other han-chinese who migrated to Zhejiang province in Chinese history. They are today simply classified as "han-chinese", but spoke a "Wu-Yue" (or simply "Wu") dialect that could be traced all the way back to the ancient languages spoken by Wu and Yue kingdoms during Spring/Autumn period.

People in Shanghai (so-called Shanghainese) are generally descendents of migrants from Jiangsu and Zhejiang province during 19th and 20th century. In Spring/Autumn period, Jiangsu was the Wu kingdom, while Zhejiang was the Yue kingdom. So typically, this region is often known as "Wu-Yue" region. The Shanghainese spoke the Shanghainese dialect, a Wu dialect that have some form of roots from the language spoken by Wu kingdom.



Refer to
http://www.chinahist...?showtopic=3798

Thanks so much for taking the time to explain and for the link.

Cheers

[1Gsz]

General_Zhaoyun, on May 18 2009, 10:57 AM, said:

Refer to
http://www.chinahist...?showtopic=3798

Hi General_Zhaoyun, I've sent you a PM.

Thanks