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#1 Karakhan

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Posted 26 October 2004 - 11:45 PM

Let me start off with a quite from "Islam Outside the Arab World" (Edited by David Westerlund and Ingvar Svanberg)

By Justin Ben-Adam

Although neither the Huis nor the Uighurs existed as nationalities prior to the twentieth century, it is ironic that it was the Huis who were intimately involved in the definition of the Uighur people in this century.  Although the Huis and the Uighurs are Muslims, there is a long history of animosity between them because the Chinese historically utilised Hui troops and officials to maintain their rule in Xinjiang.  The Turkic Muslims viewed the Huis as allies of the Han Chinese administration..


If one reads the book "Muslim Chinese" by Dru Gladney, Ph.D (The leading American researcher on the Hui, he go into great detail about the controversey over the Hui identity.

It seem that the Hui is essentially any muslim that do not have their own language. Although almost all Hui claim ancestry from Persians and Arabs, this is probably true for only a very small minority. Most Huis are most likely converts during Yuan dynasty when Kublai Khan and his descendents allowed large numbers of Arabs and Persians into China.

Like ethnic Hans, the Hui vary in physical appearance and language across China. A Guangdong Hui speaks cantonese, a Beijing Hui speaks Mandarin, a Dali Hui speaks Bai, etc. This goes for eating habits, dress style and other cultural aspects too (although you will not find too many Yunnan Hui dressing in local Bai or Yi costumes as much now).

furthermore, there is also much conflict within the Hui it self.. they is strongly divided down by different Sufi schools such as Khufiyya, Jahriyya, Qadiriyya, etc. Often you will find disputes among them over miniscule aspects of Islam like prayer style etc..sometimes more than not, they fight with each other.
http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Hui

A Hui could easily tell where another Hui is from based on dress.. some Hui use circular caps while others use 8 pointed caps

Circular cap
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Meshed cap
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Pointed cap
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Among other Muslims, they have many stereo types of the Huis, here is some I've heard:

The Uighurs don't like the Hui because they are Han, the Han do not trust the Hui because they are Muslim

If you have 3 Hui together they will not eat pork, if you have 2 Hui together one will cover the other while he eats pork, if you have one Hui alone, he will take off his cap and become a Han.

and one I found most interesting among Uighurs. In order of least liked nationalities in Xinjiang, it went Hui, Han, Kazakhs. I forgot how it exactly went but something to the effect of, Don't trust the Kazakhs, Kick the Hans out, but we must kill the Hui.

In any case one of the animosity toward the Hui is also because the Hui is also renowned businessmen, often travelling great distance to make a sale!
Within large dominant-Han cities, Hui restaurants is popular due to their Halal style meat, which many consider to be clean and healthy.

will post more but here is some pics of Hui people

Hui female
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Another Hui Female (at least it says here http://www.xj.cninfo.net/mukan/xjchoric/index02-3.htm)
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Hui model from Beijing, you can find more here http://women.sohu.co...218112807.shtml
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Great Mosque in Xian
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Hui Mosque in Ningxia
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Also in regard to Mosques, most Hui mosque use Chinese architecture style while Mosque from Uighurs, Salars, Tatars, etc use Persian style. In multi-minority area like Xinjiang, minorities very seldom go to another minority's mosque. You will not find a Uighur or Tatar in a Hui Mosque or vice versa.

Hui restaurant
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Finally to end.. Most Hui use the surname Ma (马) which they use to represent Mohammad. It is common in other Islamic minority too. In early 80's when affirmative action in China became popular.. there was a surge in Hui population. it appear that many Han Chinese who have the surname Ma, re-apply to be recognized as Hui.

#2 General_Zhaoyun

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Posted 27 October 2004 - 12:53 AM

The Hui ethnic looks no different from han-chinese, but I've read that they were actually descended from Arabs who settled in China during the Mongol Yuan dynasty. The hui ethnic speaks han-chinese language but they maintained a distinct culture different from the han-chinese.
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#3 Karakhan

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Posted 27 October 2004 - 01:15 AM

The Hui ethnic looks no different from han-chinese, but I've read that they were actually descended from Arabs who settled in China during the Mongol Yuan dynasty. The hui ethnic speaks han-chinese language but they maintained a distinct culture different from the han-chinese.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



It largely depend on area, the Hui culture match the local culture since Yue/Canton culture and food is different than say culture of Hans in Gansu or Heilongjiang. But I strongly believe most Hui is simply just Han converts. One also must realize the Hui really value being distinct from the Han. At all costs, many will try to dress a little different, emphasize their skull cap, and really emphasize Arabic-Persian roots to prove their difference..but in many case it is not true. It is similar with Africans in West and Southern Africa where they is no different than any other negroid race in the region but have strong claims to be Persian.

Since the CCP is largely sympathetic to the Hui, they tend to just stick with their version of ethnic origin when most scholars (Hui, American, European, etc) do agree that the Hui group is very broad and do not have the same ethnic origin.

#4 Yihesan

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Posted 27 October 2004 - 12:16 PM

Hmm, but doesn't Ma 马 mean Horse too?

#5 janz

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Posted 27 October 2004 - 02:38 PM

when used as a surname, the meaning doesn't matter in most cases.
灭六国者, 六国也, 非秦国也。族秦者,秦也,非天下也。

roughtly translated...

the six states destroyed the six states, not qin.
qin ruled qin, not the whole country.

#6 Zuo Zongtang

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Posted 27 October 2004 - 06:55 PM

Yeah like my surname, 左, means left alone, but as a surname, it means nothing.

So who were the people I heard were losing their culture to Chinese people because of the mass flooding of Chinese settlers. From this it looks like they are happy under the Chinese rule. But there was a muslim group that was anti Chinese because of how fast their culture was disapearing.
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#7 Gubook Janggoon

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Posted 27 October 2004 - 11:39 PM

Hui's descended from Arabs...and I thought they were just Muslim Hans....that really puts a new light on things...
"Don't be in a hurry to condemn because he doesn't do what you do or think as you think or as fast. There was a time when you didn't know what you know today." -Malcolm X

#8 Karakhan

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Posted 28 October 2004 - 12:59 AM

Hui's descended from Arabs...and I thought they were just Muslim Hans....that really puts a new light on things...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


No you was right, most Hui are Muslim Hans. But like said earlier, it vary from region to region since Hui live in every Chinese province. Hui in Yunnan is most likely to be Islamized Bai. Although there is some Hui who probably do have real descent from Arabs and Persians, they do not represent all Hui and most likely a small minority.

some books that go in detail about these

http://www.wadsworth...issn=0155019708

http://www.hup.harva...log/GLAMUY.html

and if you have PDF player, try reading this, it is free. Power point on Hui
http://www.hawaii.ed...a/pluralism.pdf
it is 90 page but start on page 25

#9 Gubook Janggoon

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Posted 28 October 2004 - 01:35 AM

Thx a bunch!
"Don't be in a hurry to condemn because he doesn't do what you do or think as you think or as fast. There was a time when you didn't know what you know today." -Malcolm X

#10 Yihesan

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Posted 05 November 2004 - 08:08 AM

Last week, Huis and Hans had ethnic conflicts in Henan, I heard some 150 or so people were killed.

#11 Koolasuchus

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Posted 12 November 2004 - 08:38 PM

Last week, Huis and Hans had ethnic conflicts in Henan, I heard some 150 or so people were killed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


And a good portion of the causalties of that riot are local policemen trying to restore order. :o

During the Qing Dynasty, a large portion of Hui was moved from Xingjiang by the Manchu government after crushing their rebellion. The displaced Hui were scattered across China to break their power so they will never be numerous enough in one place to raise up against Manchu rule. That's one of the main reasons why you can find Hui in many places.

#12 Yihesan

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Posted 18 November 2004 - 06:03 PM

But there were already Huis in Yunnan during Yuan and Ming periods, right?

#13 Karakhan

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Posted 19 November 2004 - 02:58 AM

But there were already Huis in Yunnan during Yuan and Ming periods, right?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Yes, it is believe that most Yunnan Huis during the Yuan period were local Hans, Bais, etc that was converted when a Persian (or arab) administered the government there. Generally most Hui in Yunnan seem to be Han and Bai ethnically and most likely always stayed there. The ones that was moved around by the Qing most likely came from other region.

#14 tianzhuwoye

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Posted 19 March 2005 - 07:00 AM

Here in Harbin there’s what might at first come off as a disproportionate amount of people claiming Hui ethnicity, even if for many of them 清真 ‘halaal’ is more of a style of cooking than anything else. It’s a strange experience to visit other cities in the PRC and not see the 蓝幌儿 blue lanterns hanging out in front of Muslim restaurants on every street. I really wish I knew more about the background of the Islamic presence in the city, because it’s gotta be a very interesting story and most likely quite different from the situation among the Hui in the parts of the PRC that have a history of ‘Han’ influence.

For example, we have 3 major mosques (the third is a very old building that was recently re-opened for services due to demand) and they look like this:



That is, none of them have any influence of the ‘Chinese’ architecture (at the same time, neither does just about anything else in Harbin) that is common in mosques throughout the 'China Proper' part of the PRC. This particular one was the center of the community for decades until a municipal government makeover campaign two or so years ago cleaned up the district where the other big mosque is located. The building dates from 1921 which is well before Harbin’s transformation into a ‘Chinese city’ and it’s interesting to think about who put it there. The time frame puts it into Harbin’s brief heyday as a cosmopolitan city, and this is also before all the problems started between Islam and Judaism, a religion obviously key in Harbin’s early history. There are stories that the Hui arrived under circumstances comparable to the White Russians, but I’m not gonna get into that.

If anybody is curious about the work of the Professor Gladney that Karakhan mentioned in the original post, there’s a total clutch rundown of his research on the Hui buried in the history of a wikipedia entry that he apparently posted himself but was later cut out. It can be found here:
http://en.wikipedia....sm&oldid=752902
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#15 Karakhan

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Posted 20 March 2005 - 03:09 PM

^ Interesting! Do you know when they are built? I read that in the mid 90's till now, alot of businessmen from the UAE, Saudi Arabia, etc often visit Hui centers and subsidize the construction of new Mosques.. perhaps the more Arabic style Mosques were one they help build?


in any case, an interesting, but certainly debatable article on Hui loyalty to China
--------------------------------------------
The Hui: China's most loyal Muslims

Muslims have been in China for well over a thousand years and yet they are still regarded as strange and inscrutable and backward, and politically suspect.

Paul Theroux, Riding the Iron Rooster

Mention the name Ma Jia Chun--"Ma Household Army"--and most people will bring to mind the incredibly successful running team built up by Ma Junren, the famous athletics coach. For many older Chinese--including the top leadership in Beijing's Zhong Nan Hai--the name has a more political significance, however. During the long period of internecine conflict known as the Warlord Era, much of China's vast north-west lay under the control of the Wu Ma ("Five Ma") warlord group; their collective armies were also widely known--and feared--as the Ma Jia Chun. It was this group which, in 1937, halted the Chinese Communist advance into Central Asia, when it handed the fledgling PLA 'the most cruel and punishing defeat they had suffered up to that time'.

The main distinguishing feature of the Wu Ma warlords, who controlled the provinces of Ningxia, Gansu and Qinghai for most of the period between 1911 and 1949, was that they--and most of their best fighting men--were Chinese-speaking Muslims of Hui nationality. All five bore the clan name Ma--a Sinicised form of the name Muhammad which is very common amongst the Hui. Little enough is known of China's Muslims, and there is a tendency in some quarters to consider them collectively, as a single group. In fact, such is far from the case. Beijing recognises ten separate Muslim nationalities, only one of which (the Hui, making up around 50% of China's more than 15,000,000 Muslims) is Chinese speaking. The remainder--Uighurs, Kazakhs, Kyrgyz and the like--are national minorities in a clearly defined way, like the Tibetans and the Mongols.

In fact the Hui, too, are officially recognised as a national minority. They enjoy a special status, being represented on the national flag. The red banner of the People's Republic bears a large yellow star for the Han majority, and four smaller yellow stars for the Manchus, Mongols, Tibetans and Hui respectively. Yet, despite this honour, as the perceptive Mr Theroux points out, most Han are at least puzzled by, and often suspicious of their Hui fellow countrymen. Chinese-looking and Chinese-speaking, they nevertheless eschew pork--the favourite food of most Han--read sacred texts in Arabic, pray towards Mecca five times a day, circumcise their sons and observe numerous other inexplicable practices which do not include ancestor worship! In short, from a Han perspective, the Hui are a rather inscrutable people.

What, then, is the position of the Hui in the Chinese body politic? Islam first came to China more than a thousand years ago. Traders from the Middle East arrived both by land, along the ancient Silk Road, and by sea, especially to the south China coast. Today's Hui--overwhelmingly Sinicised--are the descendants of these traders, and of local Chinese converted by them. Unlike the Turkic Muslims of China's far west, they live scattered throughout the country, from Lhasa to Harbin. In three provinces--Gansu, Qinghai and Yunnan--they make up a fairly substantial part of the population, whilst in the arid northern province of Ningxia the Hui have their own autonomous region.

A product of long-distance commerce between China and the Middle East, the Hui still excel at trade--even if today their mule and camel caravans have increasingly been replaced by fleets of trucks. They are also renowned as hoteliers and restaurateurs--the Chinese sign qing zhen--pure and true, the equivalent of the Arabic term halal--hangs outside thousands of inns and eating places throughout the country. The food is good, the surroundings generally spotless by local standards--but don't always expect to get an alcoholic drink with your meal!
Ch'ing period minaret at Najiaying Mosque, Yunnan.
Jim Goodman / CPA
Ch'ing period minaret at Najiaying Mosque, Yunnan.

There is another side to the Hui--one which, in the past, has been more than a little troubling to the central authorities. Unlike the Han--who, at least until the advent of the PLA, despised soldiering, and traditionally considered a military career to be the lowest of callings--the Hui have no taboo against soldiering and, moreover, make fearsome warriors. This fact was most radically demonstrated in the great 19th century Muslim risings which swept across northern and central China, as well as (separately) in Yunnan. It took the Ch'ing nearly two decades to re-establish control, and it is estimated that more than ten million people were killed in the fighting. It is instructive to note that the victorious Ch'ing generally pardoned minority rebels, such as the Uighurs, who chose to submit; not so the rebel Hui, who were usually executed on the spot. At one time--during the reign of the Emperor Ch'ien Lung--the complete extermination of the Chinese Muslim population was given serious consideration by the Imperial Court.

Why did the Ch'ing authorities treat the Hui rebels with such unparalleled harshness? The answer seems to be because they were Chinese-speaking, and as such traitors to the Chinese polity. Herein lies the explanation for the contradictory position of the Hui in Chinese society, even today. On a political level they may have been granted minority nationality status by the communists--but to the average Han, the Hui are indeed a puzzle--they're not quite "Chinese", but then they're not fully "foreign", either. And, of course, the Hui see things the same way, which leads to a fascinating and politically sensitive conundrum.
Yunnanese Muslim.
Jim Goodman / CPA
Yunnanese Muslim

Most Hui communities in China proper are surrounded by larger Han districts--like the famous Ox Street community in Beijing. Under such circumstances, Hui interaction with the predominant Han tends to emphasise the "non-Chinese" (Islamic) element amongst the Hui, both in their own attitudes and that of the Han. Conversely, the further from the Han-dominated heart of the country the Hui are found, the more conscious they are of their Chinese identity, and the more proud of their links with the Middle Kingdom. At the same time the "non-Chinese" aspect of the Hui, so disturbing to the Han in Beijing or Shanghai, seems to diminish in comparison with Tibetans, Mongols and Turks, whilst the Chinese element in their ethnic make-up and cultural behaviour begins to seem reassuringly familiar!

All of which means that, the farther Hui Muslims settle from the Chinese centre, the more they seem drawn to it. They have traditionally despised the Turkic Muslims of China's far west, whom they often denigrate as chan-tou or "turban heads". In the heyday of the warlord years the redoubtable Wu Ma clan may have given the PLA a bloody nose--but to the west, in far Xinjiang, their armies savagely put down Turkic separatists, and carried the Kuomintang banner to the Pamirs and the Tien Shan. It was a Hui Muslim general that outraged the Uighurs of Kashgar by hanging a picture of Sun Yat-sen, the founding father of Chinese nationalism, in that city's Id Ga Mosque. In short, the Hui are loyal to China, and strongly oppose any sort of Muslim separatist ideal.

Successive Chinese governments, regardless of their political colour, have been well aware of this fact, and for this reason the Hui figure prominently as favoured settlers in such far-flung outposts of empire as Tibet, Xinjiang and Inner Mongolia. When--as at present--Beijing faces civic unrest in the far west, it can rest secure in the certain knowledge that the Hui Muslims, many of whom serve with distinction in the PLA, will remain loyal--to China, if not to the Communist Party.
Yunnanese Muslim children.
Jim Goodman / CPA
Yunnanese Muslim children.

This does not mean, however, that Beijing is entirely happy about the Hui. Nearer at home, where there are no Uighurs or Tibetans to blur the difference, relations between Han and Hui have not always been so good. In recent years minor Hui disturbances have taken place in Yunnan, leading to the storming of mosques and a number of deaths. More importantly, particularly at a time when central control is slipping, the spectre not of Hui separatism, but of Hui regionalism must be worrying. The Hui remain strong in the poor north-western provinces of Qinghai, Gansu and Ningxia--the old marching grounds of the Wu Ma group. Should the rich coastal provinces of south China continue to prosper whilst the arid, harsh north-west remains mired in poverty, then--in a nightmare scenario nobody wishes to see--ethnic, as well as military, regionalism might become a problem once again.

Text copyright © Andrew Forbes / CPA 2001.

This article was originally published in the Asian Wall Street Journal




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