47 replies to this topic

[caocao74]

Ancient DNA Tells Tales from the Grave

By Nancy Touchette


July 25, 2003
DNA from a 2,000-year-old burial site in Mongolia has revealed new information about the Xiongnu, a nomadic tribe that once reigned in Central Asia. Researchers in France studied DNA from more than 62 skeletons to reconstruct the history and social organization of a long-forgotten culture.


Ancient grave in the Egyin Gol necropolis.
Courtesy E. Crubezy, Université Paul Sabatier, Toulouse, France

The researchers found that interbreeding between Europeans and Asians occurred much earlier than previously thought. They also found DNA sequences similar to those in present-day Turks, supporting the idea that some of the Turkish people originated in Mongolia.

The research also provides glimpses into the Xiongnu culture. Elaborate burials were reserved for the elite members of society, who were often buried with sacrificial animals and humans at the time of burial. And relatives were often buried next to each other.

“This is the first time that a complete view of the social organization of an ancient cemetery based on genetic data was obtained,” says Christine Keyser-Tracqui of the Institut de Médecine Légale in Strasbourg, France. “It also helps us understand the history of contacts between the Asiatic and European populations more than 2,000 years ago.”

The necropolis, or burial site, was discovered in 1943 by a joint Mongolian-Russian expedition in a region known as the Egyin Gol Valley of Mongolia. Skeletons in the site were well preserved because of the dry, cold climate. The researchers estimated that the site was used from the 3rd century B.C. to the 2nd century A.D.

The researchers were able to figure out how various skeletons may have been related by analyzing three different types of DNA. They used mitochondrial DNA, which is inherited only from the mother, Y-chromosome DNA, which is passed from father to son, and autosomal DNA (that is, everything but the X and Y chromosomes), which is inherited from both mother and father.


Egyin Gol region of Mongolia with detail from a map of the Egyin Gol burial site. View full
© 2003 American Journal of Genetics

Most scientists had previously thought that people from Asia mixed with Europeans sometime after the 13th century, when Ghengis Khan conquered most of Asia and parts of the Persian Empire. However, Keyser-Tracqui and her coworkers detected DNA sequences from Europeans in the Xiongnu skeletons.

“This suggests that interbreeding between the European and Asian people in this part of the world occurred before the rise of the Xiongnu culture,” says Keyser-Tracqui.

The oldest section of the burial site contained many double graves. This may reflect the ancient practice of sacrificing and burying a concubine of the deceased along with horses and other animals. This practice, reserved for the more privileged members of society, was apparently abandoned—later sections of burial site revealed no double graves.

The most recent sector of the necropolis contained only the remains of related males, a burial grouping that had never been seen before.

Skeletons from the most recent graves also contained DNA sequences similar to those in people from present-day Turkey. This supports other studies indicating that Turkish tribes originated at least in part in Mongolia at the end of the Xiongnu period.

http://www.genomenew...3/ancient.shtml

[galvatron prime]

i think are this mean turkish are the descendant of the xiong nu ,are the hun and mongol are descendant of xiongnu too ,it mean they are all mixed race ,how about the finnic and magyar people .

[WangKon936]

i think are this mean turkish are the descendant of the xiong nu ,are the hun and mongol are descendant of xiongnu too ,it mean they are all mixed race ,how about the finnic and magyar people .

I wonder what this study means for the super Altaic language family theory.

[Zorigo]

I wonder what this study means for the super Altaic language family theory.

Is there any such theory?

[Juchechosunmanse]

What race was Xiongnu? Mongoloid or caucasian? The modern Hungarians have nothing to do with them, right?

[hua]

The European admixture probably from Scythians who got conquered or joined the Hun confederation.

[DaMo]

http://www3.intersci...n...=1&SRETRY=0

Apparently, the Wanggu tribe also had some Caucasoid admixture. Again, the question is how much. According to a web post by one who claims to have analyzed the whole paper, only one out of the 12 samples has some European DNA, and the overall genetic vector of the Wanggu is still much closer to that of the Han and the Mongolians.

Edited by DaMo, 10 September 2006 - 07:25 AM.

[Zorigo]

Apparently, the Wanggu tribe also had some Caucasoid admixture.

What is WANGGU tribe... How did the people call themselves

[Yun]

Rudeboy asked a question on the Wanggu tribe on this thread, but no one has answered it yet: http://www.chinahist...showtopic=12671

The modern Hungarians have nothing to do with them, right?

That's the funny thing about national history. The national myth of the Hungarian Magyars is that their ultimate forefathers were the Huns, even though they speak a Finno-Ugrian language and their founding father Arpad is said to have migrated to the Hungarian Plain with his followers in 896, long after the Hun period. There is a long tradition in Hungary of claiming that Arpad was descended from Attila.

[hua]

^Arpad was actually a Khazar prince who banded a group of Magyar horsemen to head west to Europe. Khazar and Bulgar are said to be remnant tribes from the original Huns. It is highly likely that the Magyars were reinforced by Turkic/Hunnic elements before they entered Europe as well as absorbing the remaining Hun and Avar nomads in Hungary. There are lot of Turkic loanwords in their modern Magyar vocabulary.

[Subotai]

Magyars came to nowadays hungary "much" later then the huns came, after them there came some Turkic tribes along with such as cumans, pechenegs, bulgars and khazars. They where called "onogur" wich means "ten tribes" by Turkic people the name "hungary" comes from that IIRC.

Huns - avars - pechenegs - bulgars are the Turkic tribes who settled down in Balkans or had estabilished an "khanate" there (balkans).

To compare Hungarian history its like the Korean history, Koreans think they are mongolian descent, hungarians think they are "Huns" descent. Bulgarians got shocked when they learn that medieval bulgars arent slavs but a Turkic tribe (bcuz they hate Turks), they also think Arpad is an slav bulgar (with blond and blue eyes lol and they have alot of "fights" with hungarians think they stole their history), etc etc...

[Subotai]

^Arpad was actually a Khazar prince who banded a group of Magyar horsemen to head west to Europe. Khazar and Bulgar are said to be remnant tribes from the original Huns. It is highly likely that the Magyars were reinforced by Turkic/Hunnic elements before they entered Europe as well as absorbing the remaining Hun and Avar nomads in Hungary. There are lot of Turkic loanwords in their modern Magyar vocabulary.

Hmmm didnt knowed that, also the founder of Seljouk khanate (seljouk beg) whas also an soldier who served for the Khazars. So the conclusion is that Khazars did have many good soldiers or where able to educate/train good soldiers...

Hua if you look at the "loanwords" then serbians are in the absolute first place, they have above 8 000 Turkic loanwords in their modern vocabulary...

[hua]

^The Turkic words in Serbian must have came from either Avars or Bulgars. There were many Avars who assimilated with Croatian Slavs after their defeat by the German king Charlemagne.

[Subotai]

^The Turkic words in Serbian must have came from either Avars or Bulgars. There were many Avars who assimilated with Croatian Slavs after their defeat by the German king Charlemagne.

yea i believe that also, local dresses of "some" croatians and serbians does look almost the same as the Turkish/Turkic ones. An example you see in this clib of an Croation folk song, the dresses (and the looks ) of the men are much similar to the Turkish/Turkic ones