442 replies to this topic

[snowybeagle]

Despite all this violence against the ethnic Chinese, they DON'T participate in politics. Weird. In this day and age, it's important they do.

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Nevertheless, participating in politics may not save them from being mobbed again.

During the Suharto era, many Chinese businessmen pay "protection fee" to various politicians and military officers. The payment was in various forms, cash, shares, business deals etc.

Resentment to the Chinese continued to exist.

During the economic crisis in 1997, the authorities lost the power to control the people. Basically, they couldn't feed the people and the people needed to vent their anger.

Should another crisis occur, regardless of whether the Chinese change from their traditionally low political profile, they would still be targetted should a demagogue called for it.

By then, it makes no difference how many Chinese there are participating in politics, or what office they hold. Even the police and the military could not control the mob.

The only point for the Chinese to participate politically was to help Indonesia avoid another crisis.

But the only way to avoid another crisis was to gain a real say in politics.

The bumiputras, i.e., native Indonesians, would not look kindly at the Chinese minority gaining substantial power.

There is no painless or quick remedy for terrible state Indonesia is in.

[Liang Jieming]

Liang Jieming,
Can you pass me the link? I will pass them to my friends. Thanks.

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Hi IF,

Sure, here's one of the most active groups I've found. The others are not very active.

Budaya Tionghua (Chinese Culture)
http://groups.yahoo....budaya_tionghua

Jieming

[Liang Jieming]

Liang Jieming, thanks for the link.

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No problem. You're quite welcome. Just watchout you don't get overwhelmed. They post soooooo much on that group that it's close to impossible to follow any particular thread! hehehehe

Jieming
DragonSeedLegacy

[Liang Jieming]

Why the Persecution of Overseas Chinese"

The Chinese themselves are partly to blame for some if not
most of the resulting conflicts. Chinese merchants have tended
to act as go betweens, first to the local Sultans or Rulers and
the people, then the colonial masters and their subjects. This
has tended to bring out envy and resentment as many Chinese
businessmen are profit oriented to the point of ruthlessness,
not to mention their penchant to conserve (hoard) money for a
rainy day.

However having said that, nothing can really justify genocide or
mass killings of a people because of their beliefs or their
differences.

I make no excuses for the Overseas Chinese. They, like any
other culture or peoples, have their strengths as well as their
faults. The Overseas Chinese survive in often hostile conditions
because of their differences. They also fail, because of their
differences.

Though the centuries, they have been generally distrustful of
central government. They come from a century long history of
prosecution, from Chinese authorities who view merchants as
parasites, local authorities who see them as threats to their
way of life and from colonial authorities who fear them as rivals
to power.

They look to themselves to solve problems, relying on
relationships within the family, clan or dialect group.

They tend to be ethno-centric especially in their views of the
locals as being laid back and not as goal driven as themselves.

They place a high emphasis of guanxi and relationships in
business (and hence exclude many non-chinese in their
dealings leading to resentment).

They remain in small isolated pockets thoughtout the world
and therefore become heightenly aware of their "chineseness",
becoming even more radical in their efforts to cling to their
culture (even more so than mainland chinese).

They come from a tradition of soujourning which still colours
many attitudes of the Overseas Chinese even to this day
(which does not sit well with locals who would prefer their
assimulation into the local communities).

They think in terms of generations and not in the short-term,
sacrificing much for their children and future generations
(usually resulting in a not unexpected view of Chinese being
calculating and ruthless).

They remain highly confucian while living predominantly in
local societies where western/middle-eastern culture/thought
/religion prevail (North America, South America, Southeast
Asia, Australiasia, South Africa, Britain)

Up until the 1950s, they were not encouraged to seek local
citizenships but were instead viewed with suspicion and
treated as such (until China dropped it's claim over the
overseas Chinese and encouraged them to settle in their
adopted lands).

They remain secretive and tight-lipped on their practices
and way of life, not welcoming scrutiny into their societies
(making it hard for others to understand them and therefore
build the necessary bridges between cultures).

This is all of course very much generalised and does not in
any way reflect the realities facing every single overseas
chinese community in the world today. However, these are
some of the reasons why we as a community, have
succeeded so spectacularly... and failed so miserably at
the same time.

It is my hope that this is the first step towards true
understanding of ourselves, and of us by others.

Jieming

[Liang Jieming]

Hi, suggest this thread be moved to the new Overseas Chinese forum area?


Jieming

[Hendrik_2000]

What is unusual about the Chinese is that they're not particularly politically active. This is going to hurt them in the future. When you think about it, many other richer ethnic minority groups tend to lobby local governments to protect their rights. Despite all this violence against the ethnic Chinese, they DON'T participate in politics. Weird. In this day and age, it's important they do.

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That is not true Chinese Indonesian has an active political role during the independece and continue right after independece They even have an umbrella organization called Baperki to ease the integration of Chinese minority into the Indonesian society

Baperki platform is to keep the Chinese culture and tradition , language in return for being a loyal citizen and contributing to the society at large It also defend the legal right of Chinese citizen But the turbulent year of Sukarno They are branded as communist sympathiser Though there are no communist doctrine in their ideology as they made of largely capitalist Chinese

But due to personal friendship between Sukarno and other left wing leader with the Baperki leadership
Also in their quest for Chinese legal right they are often supported by the left wing intellectual such as Pramodya Ananto Toer
The problem with politic in Indonesia is most of the people are politicaly illiterate and susceptible to provocation from vested interest be it local muslim leader who compete with the Chinese or used as scape goat to cover their often corrupt practise

In the blood bath aftermath many of the Baperki leadership are hunted and killed by the mob Some lucky one are escape to Holland and some endured long imprisonment
The experience totaly traumatized the Chinese Indonesian and left a bitter after taste that way most Chinese intellectual and community leader left for overseas

[Liang Jieming]

In the blood bath aftermath many of the Baperki leadership are hunted and killed by the mob Some lucky one are escape to Holland and some endured long imprisonment
The experience totaly traumatized the Chinese Indonesian and left a bitter after taste  that way most Chinese intellectual and community leader left for overseas

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When did this happen? Was this before or after independence? I believe most indonesian chinese keep a very low profile so as to not attract attention but their links in government are very, very deep. Are there any Chinese in politics? I saw a banner for a Chinese political party in Batam Island during the last elections earlier this year and the taxi driver was telling us that this is the first time they are contesting. Is this something new? They lost in the end to Megawati's party (I think, I'm not sure. Haven't been back to Batam since)

Jieming

[Hendrik_2000]

When did this happen?  Was this before or after independence?  I believe most indonesian chinese keep a very low profile so as to not attract attention but their links in government are very, very deep.  Are there any Chinese in politics?  I saw a banner for a Chinese political party in Batam Island during the last elections earlier this year and the taxi driver was telling us that this is the first time they are contesting.  Is this something new?  They lost  in the end to Megawati's party (I think, I'm not sure.  Haven't been back to Batam since)

Jieming

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Right after the failed G30S (supposed failed communist coup d'etats) around 1967 Baperki wa considered as under arm of the communist party and many of it's activist are rounded up by the mob of muslim organization under instruction of the military to do their dirty work of killing communist and their synpathizer Siauw Giok Tjan, the leader of Baperki was inprison for long time Release in the late 80's he was exiled to Holland and Die shortly Dr Oei Tjoe Tat another prominent Chinese politician who is the minister of health under Soekarno regime was also imprison and release in 80's They are the lucky few many lesser activist in small town just simply rounded up by muslim vigilante and executed ot tortured and sent to Buru Island to rot where they hunt rat to eat

You don't play politic noisely in Indonesia because the next political upheavel or riot you are marked man
Right after the Suharto fell they are suggestion of giving the Chinese a political role to play but The reaction in the press was so vehemennt against it They say even with theri political right stunted they still manage to control the economy of distribution
No pure Chinese political party met the requirement of 2% population vote threshold Some other joined combined Christian and Secular Party
Presently there some Chinese in legislator an cabinet and Mari Pengestu who come from long line of Peranakan politician is now trade minister
But under the scene Sofyan Wanandi(aka Lim Koen Hian) is the adviser of Dr Yudhoyono he was credited with the selection of cabinet
He is speaker of the large Chinese Conglomerate known as Chukong

the Chinese politcal role is limited in Indonesia I do agree with one of the poster who posted that instea of direct participation they have just to make sure that Indonesia are properly govern that in itself is a tall order

here is the link to Baperki http://home.flash.ne...639/History.htm
google it there are many reference in WEB

[Liang Jieming]

Indonesia plays it hot and cold with the Chinese. When they need the Chinese support, it's nice and everyone are good friends. The moment it suits them and they need scapegoats for a bad economy, out come the ice again. One way out would be if the Chinese were to gain some serious political muscle but in a population of 200 million, there are only what... 5% Chinese I think. Tough.

Jieming

[cniht]

"The Qing did give serious thought to taking punitive measures in 1740. This should caution us against too sweeping a claim that China was a 'world empire' that could see nothing to be gained from involvements with economies beyond its own borders. Indeed, one of the major arguments in favour of a trade embargo to punish the Dutch for the massacre was that if not properly chastened, the Dutch might mistreat the next group of Chinese who came to trade, just as they had mistreated their long-term Chinese residents. The major argument against a ban was the deleterious effect it would have on the lives of hundreds of thousands of people on the south China coast. The crucial distinction was that those who remained based in China were entitled to imperial protection when they traded with and traveled to southeast Asia; but those who settled elsewhere were not." (Kenneth Pomeranz, "The Great Divergence" p. 203 - bold face added by me)

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Right to the point!

[snowybeagle]

They are still generally having "caring for themselves" attitude and are not united.

I respectfully disagree.

In my opinion, the position of the ethnic-Chinese Indonesian citizens will never be a tenable one, at least for two more generations, regardless of what is done today.

I speak this from personal experience from the first decade of my life there, as well as subsequent visits and contacts with relatives there.

I mentioned earlier in this thread that many, if not a significant majority, of the Indonesian "natives" (i.e., excluding Chinese), would find it an affront to have significant ethnic Chinese presence in politics.

Many ethnic Chinese are actually struggling for a livelihood, but compared to the poorest Indonesians who live literally among human filth, the ethnic Chinese will never be seen as "one of us" by the natives.

One cannot judge by how native Indonesians and ethnic Chinese Indonesians might interact with each other overseas. The former is a miniscule percentage of the native Indonesians, and can be considered as a "priviliged group" even if you see them slaving away illegally in restaurants.

Until the issue of deep-rooted widespread urban poverty can be addressed, the ethnic Chinese will always be the target of frustrations and suspicions.

The only thing ethnic Chinese Indonesians can hope for is economic stability to prevent the situation from getting out of control, again.

Perhaps others might think the ethnic Chinese, especially the wealthier ones, could be more proactive instead.

But the reality is that the real source of the threat of violence come not from the poor people, but from unscrupulous masterminds working behind the scenes making use of the poor people for their own political gains.