76 replies to this topic

[xng]

Well it depends. If you only consider Singapore history from Stanford Raffles then it's a only a couple of hundred years. But Singapore goes longer than that to the time when it was Temasek under the Johore Sultanate. Even further back, it was under Siam and was already a hotly contested piece of real estate that was fought over. Melaka dominated Temasek after chasing the Siamese out of the Malay peninsula except for the northern states of Kedah, Kelantan and Perlis. There was a very strong Siamese influence in the area. eg. when Kedah tried to throw off the yoke of Siam, the Siamese retaliated by pulling out the northern tip of Kedah, giving it to a new king friendly to Siam which became Perlis.

The problem with Singapore history is that everyone is only interested in its history from the time of the British. Somehow we are still stuck with the colonial legacy of viewing anything else as irrelevant.

Jieming

So in your opinion, since the siamese once controlled all of the malay peninsular, who are the earlier immigrants to the malay peninsular ? the siamese or the malays ? The malays claim to be the natives of singapore/malaysia.

From what I know from when I was studying Singapore's history, migration of chinese from China began in 1819 when the british colonised Singapore by setting up a settlement here. They brought in many coolies (labourers) from South China (esp. Fujian, Canton area). During the 19th century, many chinese migrated to Singapore in search of 'better living' (we all know China suffered from lots of corruption and turmoil during the 19th century). Migration continued till today and essentially, Singapore's history is one that's based on immigration.

Singapore has the same history as the malaysian chinese right until the 1965. So if you want to know the history , read up on straits settlements, lee kuan yew's biography etc.

Edited by xng, 24 October 2005 - 04:37 AM.

[Optimus]

sometimes wonder what if the Chinese based BS party won power and rule the country in the 60s instead of the English PAP. would Singapore became a "Third China?" Would it be better or for worse.

[xu huang]

Temasek was a vassal state of Siam until the Parameswara killed the Temenggong(sp) of Temasek. The powers in the region should be the Siamese and the Majapahit Empire.

[Douglas Lam]

True, I think the younger ones probably dont know. But consider that Singaporeans in general know as little about the history of Singapore, I think that needs attention first. A large portion of Singaporeans still think English is our national langauge and I once had a fella tell me we are native English speakers with a straight face.

I was "trained" by my father to "report" my ancestral village when people ask where I am from! Well, he came from Hong Kong and they are quite particular with this.

As for national language, I know it is Malay, but most of us do not speak it.

I remember my primary school in Singapore (Kong Hwa Primary School) is a chinese school founded by Hokkien Huiguan 福建会馆 (association), that is also similar to Ai Tong primary school.

I think, in Singapore, there are 5 typical Huiguan in Singapore:

Hokkien
Teochew
Cantonese
Hakka
Hainanese

IIRC, the hainanese Huiguan is located somewhere along beach road.

My wife's brother is teaching there! There are many huiguan around and there are a lot right across your school. Hokkien Huiguan is huge, since there are a lot of hokkiens in Sg. Nice big building they are having now.

My huiguan is very small since it caters only to those from Zhongshan, Guangdong. It is on the 2nd floor of a old shophouse in Keong Siak Street (chinatown). This street used to be known as "Kam Nu Kai" Women Forbidden Street because it is a street full of brothels. Now only left a few still operating! LOL

[Edgar Liao]

hihi, just to add a comment. I'm taking a module that deals with China-SEA interactions this semester and inadvertently, the Overseas Chinese would be an integral component. I have to write a research essay for the module ***** ***** and so I'd thought I'd delve into something related to the OC in Singapore. What I found interesting is that the standard historiography on the Singapore OC tends to focus on their economic contributions and activities, and consequently, most of the famous Straits Chinese that are mentioned and discussed are those who participate in such activities. Since young, my social studies and Singapore history lessons tended to teach me stuff about people like Lim Boon Keng, Tan Kah Kee etc. What I realize from my preliminary research, a realization that has come too late if you ask me, is that among the Straits Chinese, there are diverse groups with varying types of contributions and activities, not necessary linked to the economic or financial and I don't think that they should be omitted or de-emphasized from history just because they weren't as important from the state narrative's point of view.

For instance, for my paper, I am going to look at this particular Straits Chinese figure who was a contemporary of Lim Boon Keng whom my contemporaries and I don't even know of, prior to this piece of research - Sir Song Ong Siang. It's not everyday we see a knighted Chinese do we? But he was knighted in 1927 as a Commander of the Order of the British Empire for his contributions to colonial Singapore, and in addition, because he was one of the King's Chinese (name for the small group of Straits Chinese in Singapore who viewed themselves as loyal British subjects). The existence of this group of Straits Chinese is interesting, I feel, because they show that, in the context of the Singapore government's endeavour to promote cultural identification with the China mainland for overt political reasons, at least a minority of the Overseas Chinese had possessed an ethnic identity as Chinese without feeling any cultural or political identification. This is interesting especially when you juxtapose Sir Song with Lim Boon Keng (who has a MRT station named after him). They came from similar backgrounds of Western education (Sir Song - law, Dr Lim - medicine, both in England), served tenures as the Chinese member in the Legislative Council, started the Straits Chinese magazine (the first non-European voice in colonial Singapore society) and founded the Singapore Chinese Girls School. However, Sir Song's contributions was restricted mostly to the spheres of social reform (in particular the reform of education for the local Straits Chinese) and Christian society (he was an important contributor to the Prinsep Street Church) while Dr Lim had more economic achievements to boast of. Furthermore, Dr Lim diverged from Sir Song in expousing cultural identification and ties with China (albeit only when he became an adult). Assessing these differences between these two contemporaries within the context of Singapore's standard historiography on its overseas Chinese would be interesting I feel.

Unfortunately, sources on Sir Song are quite limited, as far as I can tell. Most of my basic information, I had extracted from a 1973 thesis for the NUS, History Dept by Ching Seow Ying and brief mentions elsewhere. Otherwise, his other monumental legacies are his book One Hundred Years' History of the Chinese in Singapore and microform records of articles in the Straits Chinese Magazine.


anybody got any tips/comments/suggestions?

[General_Zhaoyun]

It PUZZLES me for a long time,why didn't LKY push Chinese as OFFICIAL LANGUAGE with nearly 80% of ethnic Chinese population in Singapore ?

I've heard Singapore has been fiercely promoting Mandarin in recent years plus adopted the use of simplified Chinese.

For your information, Chinese Mandarin is already an official language of Singapore, along with English, Malay and Tamil. Together, they made up the 4 official languages of Singapore: English, Chinese, Malay and Tamil.

English is generally speaking the language for business, education and politics in Singapore. It is also, if you want to say, a common language (i.e. lingua franca) spoken by all races in Singapore, although not everyone (esp. some elderly) can speak english. Mandarin is also widely spoken in Singapore, and if you want to say, the common language (i.e. lingua franca) among all chinese in Singapore. Again, not everyone (esp. some elderly or some english-educated) can speak it. Malay is widely spoken among the Malay Singaporean. Tamil is spoken among the Tamil Indians in Singapore, but not all Indians in Singapore speaks Tamil.

Malay is actually the national language of Singapore, but it's an irony that many Singaporeans do not speak this language.

Today, Singapore chinese speaks either English/Singlish or Mandarin to one another. Most of them are bilingual.

For more info, refer to
http://en.wikipedia....ndarin_Campaign

[urofpersia]

Malay is actually the national language of Singapore, but it's an irony that many Singaporeans do not speak this language.

Very true, although there are some grassroots and education elements trying to conduct Malay lessons for the public. Maybe I should pick this up after learning a smattering of Tajiquan...

[snowybeagle]

It PUZZLES me for a long time,why didn't LKY push Chinese as OFFICIAL LANGUAGE with nearly 80% of ethnic Chinese population in Singapore ?

As GZ mentioned, Chinese is AN official language.
However, it is NOT a National Language, nor is it mandatory for all Singaporeans to learn.

From an economic aspect, it would have been totally unwise to make Chinese compulsory when Singapore thrives on entrepot trade regionally.

From a political aspect, not only would it have been suicidal for the main political party (PAP) as most of their leaderships were WOGs (Westernised Oriental Gentlemen) who were poor or unlearned in the language, it would also have roused fierce opposition from neighbouring states and local minorities. One of the reason why Singapore was booted out from Malaysian Federation was the PAP's (& LKY's) insistence on a Malaysian's Malaysia instead of a Malay's Malaysia. The former was to put all citizens regardless of ethnic background on equal standing, the latter shows favouritism to the native Malays.

I've heard Singapore has been fiercely promoting Mandarin in recent years plus adopted the use of simplified Chinese.

Again, the changing fortunes of the world is such that though China's economy is booming, Singapore is unable to fully maximise its potential because after three decades, many Singaporean Chinese in the social elite as well as middle-class speaks Mandarin poorly. Singapore's mainly survived on leveraging its role as the middle-man between East and West, but this role is now at risk today.

When the Chinese Singaporeans cannot communicate well with their Chinese counterparts, the Western companies would have little use for Singapore. And the Chinese would have little use for Singaporeans who cannot understand them as a business partner.

BTW, the use of simplified scripts have been around for decades.

[Edgar Liao]

actually i believe that the Speak Mandarin Campaign began in the context of the PAP's political concerns, beginning from the 1970s. They had began to realize that the capitalist orientation of the society they had made had became a threat because the individualistic and pragmatic paradigm that they advocated had positioned the self above the community. This evinced a threat to the PAP's political hegemony and it didn't help that in the 1980s, the PAP's electoral mandate slipped to unprecedented lows after 3 (or 4) previous clean sweeps in the General Elections, accentuated by the loss of the Anson by-election in 1981 to JB Jeyaratnam and then, the 2 seats of Potong Pasir and Anson in 1984. These kind of made the PAP unhappy and further convinced them that individuals were becoming selfish, wanton etc, which set the PAP on the road to promoting 'Asian values', in particular a Confucian brand (which they could not overtly call Confucian values because of the political repercussions. Think neighbors who don't like the Chinese)

Confucian values, with the emphasis on collectivity and consensus and the adherence to social roles and hierarchies, appealed to the PAP unsurprisingly. 2 important policy reports played a key role in this move. Firstly, the Goh (Keng Swee) Report of 1970 which :

• stresses the importance of a set of core values in the process of nation-building
• bilingualism
o English as the lingua franca, due to its use for science, technology and commerce
o mother tongue depending on the ethnic category to which an individual was assigned
 mother tongue expected to act as an agent for the transmission of Asian values

and the

Ong (Teng Cheong) Report on Moral Education 1979
• called for ‘Moral Education’ programme to produce ‘good, useful and loyal citizens through inculcation of the desired moral values and social attitudes’
• augmented Goh Report by supporting the inculcation of Asian moral concepts and values and saw the use of mother tongue as the most efficient way of transmitting Asian moral values as well
• recommended that religious studies help reinforce the teaching of moral values


And the consequences of these nation-building moves by the PAP was the development of a moral education syllabus and the addition of religious studies into the school curriculum, and of course, the promotion of mother tongue.

[Moon]

Singapore's mainly survived on leveraging its role as the middle-man between East and West, but this role is now at risk today.

When the Chinese Singaporeans cannot communicate well with their Chinese counterparts, the Western companies would have little use for Singapore. And the Chinese would have little use for Singaporeans who cannot understand them as a business partner.

I do not understand these paras, kindly elaborate?

Thanks in advance.

[Centaur]

I do not understand these paras, kindly elaborate?

Thanks in advance.

I am not certain if I am right, but let me try to see I understand Snowybeagle. Singapore's first job of importance during the it's founding was trade, this was because of her strategic position. She was in the middle of the sea lanes between the East and the West, therefore Singapore became an entrepot port. A place of exchange, a huge market place, becoming the middleman enjoying the fruits of trade.

At this point of time, Singapore's position are being threatened because Singapore is facing many new players in the vincity. If we cannot maintain our lead, we will loose out. Again, language played a part in this, most Chinese in Singapore were immigrants, speaking the language and understanding the Chinese mentality.

As for the current breed of Singaporean - it had lost much of their immigrant forefather's ability to be flexible and on hard work. Furthermore many Singaporean Chinese are unable to speak or write Chinese. This makes them rather not useful when it comes to becoming the middleman between the West and China. My father sometimes accused me of becoming a WOG - Yellow outside, white inside (Westernized Oriental Gentleman - actually, it should read as Lady and not Gentleman, but the meaning is the same. I become too Westernized for my own good - again that was many light years ago.)

This is indeed a problem that the leaders of Singapore are facing; there is a need to awake the sense of urgency in the younger Singaporean to know that they cannot be lag behind or becoming too complacent. I know the pressure to excel is tremendous, I had gone thru the system myself, and thank God, I survived. I am sure with the fine pedigree we received from our immigrant forefathers, we should be able to do the job?

[Moon]

This is indeed a problem that the leaders of Singapore are facing; there is a need to awake the sense of urgency in the younger Singaporean to know that they cannot be lag behind or becoming too complacent. I know the pressure to excel is tremendous, I had gone thru the system myself, and thank God, I survived. I am sure with the fine pedigree we received from our immigrant forefathers, we should be able to do the job?

Indeed Centuar, I see the pending issues and is now quite clear about what was trying to put forward. Thanks.

And I am totally agreeable about your comment on the current breed of Singaporean who had lost much of their immigrant forefather's ability to be flexible and on hard work. Well I can definitely see this coming in my workplace, comparing the younger staff with the older ones.

Being unable to read and write Chinese, definitely post a problem. In fact we are already experiencing this issue at work too. The market in China is vast and competitive, but it is not easy to penetrate into the market without a good knowledge and background of speaking and written chinese language because it seems like the only way to communicate with the manufacturers in China is Chinese and Mandarin. Its like chickens talking to ducks!

Nevertheless, I am glad our government is aware of this situation, from their recent efforts in improving our current education system in Chinese / Mandarin awareness in schools, and the introduction of new younger candidates to understudy MPs and to breed new leaders of Singapore.

Cheers!

Edited by Moon, 03 April 2006 - 11:10 PM.

[lingzhixiangu灵芝仙姑]

Unfortunately, sources on Sir Song are quite limited, as far as I can tell. Most of my basic information, I had extracted from a 1973 thesis for the NUS, History Dept by Ching Seow Ying and brief mentions elsewhere. Otherwise, his other monumental legacies are his book One Hundred Years' History of the Chinese in Singapore and microform records of articles in the Straits Chinese Magazine.
anybody got any tips/comments/suggestions?

Edgar,

If you have not consulted materials in National Archives of Singapore, then you must give it a try!

Reference Room of National Archives of Singapore
http://www.a2o.com.s...tml/contact.jsp

Try One-Stop Online finding through their “Access to Archives” search
http://www.a2o.com.s...arch/index.html
Try some searches, you will be surprised to find stuff that you could not find elsewhere including pictures!

Good luck!

[Centaur]

It PUZZLES me for a long time,why didn't LKY push Chinese as OFFICIAL LANGUAGE with nearly 80% of ethnic Chinese population in Singapore ?

I've heard Singapore has been fiercely promoting Mandarin in recent years plus adopted the use of simplified Chinese.

"The official languages in Singapore are Malay, Chinese (Mandarin), Tamil and English. Malay is the national language and English is the language of administration." - This came from the Ministry of Information, Communications and the Arts

Actually, Malay was made our National Language, way before we get Indepedence and became a Nation State. We were part of Malaysia, comprising of West Malaya - the Malay Peninsula, East Malaya - Sabah and Sarawak, Crown Colonies - Penang and Singapore. When Malaysia was established, it was difficult not to accept Malay as the National Language. The Malays were predominate and they were grant special priviledges. I believe some of the older folks would remember having to sing the Malaysian National Anthem at the raising of the flag.

In any case after the Separation from Malaysia, I doubt MM Lee could change the National Language, even if the population then was 80% Chinese. He had to consider the sensiblities of the neighbouring countries - Indonesia, Malaysia and Brunei. We already had our hands full with the 'Confrontation' with Indonesia. I doubt we wish to antagonize our northerly neighbours anymore. In any case, it is fine with most of us, as long as we get stablity with some compromise.

[snowybeagle]

Actually, I recalled the main drive in the late 1970s and early 1980s on Speak Mandarin campaign was to displace the role of Chinese dialects with Mandarin.

Politically of course, it might mean that aspiring MPs need to be conversant only in Mandarin rather than Mandarin and Hokkien and Hakka and Teochew and Hainanese and Cantonese and Hock Chia and Hock Chew and ... well, you get the idea.

I'm not sure if in the past, the dialect group of the aspiring MP mattered during elections (socially, at least among some generations born before the 1960s, they still hold that Hokkiens and Cantonese don't get along.)



As for my point about Singapore losing its value, I think Centuar more or less got the right idea.

In fact, I think the Singaporean government recently realised the ability to speak/read/write Mandarin alone is insufficient to make Singapore a worthwhile business partner for the mainland Chinese doing global business and for Western companies seeking to do business in China.

The Suzhou debacle in the 1990s is a classic example of how different the mentality of Singaporean Chinese has become from the mainland Chinese despite supposedly using the same language.

In the past before Singapore became independent, the Chinese migrants who became successful towkays (businessmen) did so by seeking to understand and meet the needs of others.

However, the Singapore government now seemed to realise belatedly that the education system in Singapore produced a generation of Singaporean, who even if they could speak Mandarin, lacked common sense of empathy and instead expect others to understand the Singaporeans. And they have no idea why others do not respond to their ideas or why their methodology, tried and tested in Singapore, failed to produce the desired results when implemented in China.

Bearing in mind some of the spectacular fiascos suffered by Singapore companies in doing business in China,

What kind of impression would Singaporean companies leave with the Chinese entrepreneurs seeking overseas partners to globalise their business?

What kind of image would Singaporean companies give to Western companies seeking a reliable partner to do business in China?

The encouragement by the government for Chinese Singaporeans to speak Mandarin is only a first but necessary step in order for Singapore to make itself relevant again.

On another note, I suspect it is also a way for the government to deal with the elites migrating out of Singapore to the West.

If these elites no longer have any part of themselves that they could identify as Asian, they'd have little qualms uprooting.