94 replies to this topic

[Rong Qin Wang]

Zunjing de China History Forum members,

Prior to Qin Dynasty, there was no standard currency for China ; it was Qin Shi Huang who not only unified the country politically, but also in form of currency. By the Qing Dynasty, golden coins were made with the current Emperor’s face on the back or the front. Therefore, the ascension of a new Emperor would always give birth to new faced coins. However, I really have no idea when the current Emperor’s face began to appear on coins! Will someone please enlighten me on when this practice started? Did it start with Qin Shi Huang, who instigated the uniformity of currency? I knew for sure that coins during Qing Dynasty had faces of each Qing Emperor at some point or another, but who proposed this idea?

Xie Xie,

[Ashura]

Prior to Qin Dynasty, there was no standard currency for China ; it was Qin Shi Huang who not only unified the country politically, but also in form of currency. By the Qing Dynasty, golden coins were made with the current Emperor’s face on the back or the front. Therefore, the ascension of a new Emperor would always give birth to new faced coins. However, I really have no idea when the current Emperor’s face began to appear on coins! Will someone please enlighten me on when this practice started? Did it start with Qin Shi Huang, who instigated the uniformity of currency? I knew for sure that coins during Qing Dynasty had faces of each Qing Emperor at some point or another, but who proposed this idea?

This is the first time I hear such thing about emperor's face on coins.
Faces on coins was a Roman tradition and did not exist in ancient China. So I guess it would be some foreginers ideas (or someone who has foreigners ideas to put emperor's faces on coins duing the late Qing.

Edited by Ashura, 24 October 2006 - 03:37 AM.

[shawn]

Well silver and gold are just precious metal and everybody loves them.

Actually they were not used as floating currency but as hard currency,as they were more used for insurance purposes. An ordinary person would not carry a Liang of Gold or Silver. For example, the emperor may give some ingots of gold to a official, these ingots however could not be used to buy stuff for example a coke in the market, as no one could break that up. Usually ingots of gold were used in big transaction, for example when the government needed to award the troops, a shipment of gold would be sent and each soldier would receive his share. Once a soldier received his share of gold, which is now a small amount, he could go exchange it intofloating currency, ie, the bronze or some kind of metal coins and later paper currency.

Silver and gold were only the base of the tokens.

Sorry, not that i mistrust you, but where did you get the info from? It sounds logical..Can you show me the link first.

I think he refers "yuan bao" as ingots and "sui yin" as silver "stones".

Okay, although people would not use ignots when they are out, but they would use sui yin/ silver "stones" right?

[Ashura]

Sorry, not that i mistrust you, but where did you get the info from? It sounds logical..Can you show me the link first.

I think he refers "yuan bao" as ingots and "sui yin" as silver "stones".

Okay, although people would not use ignots when they are out, but they would use sui yin/ silver "stones" right?

Sorry I don't have a source that is specialized in this issue. It is a composite of various sources I have seen throughout years. There is a good book about on ancient Chinese financial economy by an ancient Chinese called "The Theroy of Salt and Metal" that might help.

sui yin is broken silver, that's still how Chinese call their coins and changes. Actually the governments of ancient China would have their own mints. So the floating currency would be the coins form those mints. You can probably used gold and silver "yuan bao" if you had to, and people would definitely accpet them (who doesn't love gold and silver) but don't expect you can get the changes back after that. Small silver stone would be better but you will have to go through a whole discussion with the merchant about how much weight of the silver is equal to how many coins, so it is not a god practice for everybody.

[orchid_dreams]

This is the first time I hear such thing about emperor's face on coins.
Faces on coins was a Roman tradition and did not exist in ancient China. So I guess it would be some foreginers ideas (or someone who has foreigners ideas to put emperor's faces on coins duing the late Qing.

I think Le Khac Minh Giao meant the "faces of emperors" the names of the emperor. So for example the coins during emperor KangXi's reign would have the words Kang Xi 康熙 on it.

I'm not sure if I understood it correctly...

[Ashura]

I think Le Khac Minh Giao meant the "faces of emperors" the names of the emperor. So for example the coins during emperor KangXi's reign would have the words Kang Xi 康熙 on it.

I'm not sure if I understood it correctly...

Oh that is true for sure, but it wasn't the emperors' real names though it was the reign years.

[orchid_dreams]

Oh that is true for sure, but it wasn't the emperors' real names though it was the reign years.

oh sorry, my mistake. lol

[Ashura]

Want to add that during 5 dynasties, a state used lead as currency, which was worthless.

However, since trade was still going on, merchants needed to buy the valueless currecny with that state in order to buy and sell, and when they were getting out of that state, they needed to get rid of the currency asap because it had not use once outside of that state, so they got rip off the exchange rate. That state got rich by this close-to-robbing method.

Edited by Ashura, 25 October 2006 - 02:25 AM.

[shawn]

So anyone else in this forum (guests weclome to share too) got any other links and information that can share with me? I am really interested to know.

Edited by shawn, 25 October 2006 - 02:45 AM.

[shawn]

Want to add that during 5 dynasties, a state used lead as currency, which was worthless.

However, since trade was still going on, merchants needed to buy the valueless currecny with that state in order to buy and sell, and when they were getting out of that state, they needed to get rid of the currency asap because it had not use once outside of that state, so they got rip off the exchange rate. That state got rich by this close-to-robbing method.

How did the merchants buy the valueless currency from the state? With the produce/goods the merchants were carrying or were ignots(be it gold or/and silver) or with the silver stone chips?

[Ashura]

How did the merchants buy the valueless currency from the state? With the produce/goods the merchants were carrying or were ignots(be it gold or/and silver) or with the silver stone chips?

Like how you use US dollar to buy some wortheless currency. Another way is that when a merchatn sold his items in that state, he would be getting the lead currency. When he was leaving that state, since that currency was useless, he would use it to buy the products of that state and sell them somewhere else.

[shawn]

Like how you use US dollar to buy some wortheless currency. Another way is that when a merchatn sold his items in that state, he would be getting the lead currency. When he was leaving that state, since that currency was useless, he would use it to buy the products of that state and sell them somewhere else.

So you are saying that the merchants would use ingots to buy the currency from the state before entering the particluar state for trading? Alternatively, the merchants would have to sell some of its goods first just to get some of the state's currency on the day he enter that state?

[Ashura]

So you are saying that the merchants would use ingots to buy the currency from the state before entering the particluar state for trading? Alternatively, the merchants would have to sell some of its goods first just to get some of the state's currency on the day he enter that state?

Yes but everything was done within that state, as other states had no use of the currency.

[Rong Qin Wang]

This is the first time I hear such thing about emperor's face on coins.
Faces on coins was a Roman tradition and did not exist in ancient China. So I guess it would be some foreginers ideas (or someone who has foreigners ideas to put emperor's faces on coins duing the late Qing.

Zunjing de Ashura,

Hmm, I had no idea that putting faces of the leaders on coins was initially a Roman tradition. Did this practive never exist in ancient China?

Zunjing de Orchid_dreams,

No, I actually meant faces of the Emperors. The coins would have faces of each Emperor, their era names, and the years from which they have reigned. However, I have only seen 12 of these coins, all from the 12 Qing Emperors. Honestly, I don’t really know how accurate this would be since it seems to have only existed with Qing Emperors.

Can someone please elaborate on this?

Xie Xie,

[orchid_dreams]

Zunjing de Ashura,

Hmm, I had no idea that putting faces of the leaders on coins was initially a Roman tradition. Did this practive never exist in ancient China?

Zunjing de Orchid_dreams,

No, I actually meant faces of the Emperors. The coins would have faces of each Emperor, their era names, and the years from which they have reigned. However, I have only seen 12 of these coins, all from the 12 Qing Emperors. Honestly, I don’t really know how accurate this would be since it seems to have only existed with Qing Emperors.

Can someone please elaborate on this?

Xie Xie,

Wow! Really! I thought they looked like this: