167 replies to this topic

[lobster]

The A-bomb victim farce could also be used by anti-American people.

[Sephodwyrm]

In any case, Japan would be worse off if not for the A-bombs. The A-bombs saved Japan.

[ahbian]

Remember the biggest objective of 731. A lot of people seemed to have forgotten about it. The Japanese were utilizing 731 to come up with a WMD capable of defeating the US. Peasants (Chinese and Korean), POWs were used in the research to come up with a sufficiently weaponized and controllable virus or bacteria and utilize this against the US.

731 comes up in the western media every now and then. this article is from 2002.


The Asian Auschwitz of Unit 731

August 29 2002

Unit 731

After releasing plague bacilli in the Chinese city of Yiwu, Unit 731 extracted the bacilli from patients' internal organs.

It was a secret Japanese military unit that used Chinese prisoners for gruesome medical experiments. Years later, Japanese authorities are still in denial. Shane Green reports.

The noise was like the sound when a board is struck. On the frozen fields at Ping Fang, in north-east China, chained prisoners were led out with bare arms, and subjected to a current of air to accelerate the freezing process. Then came the noise. With a short stick, the arms of the prisoners would be struck to make sure their limbs had indeed frozen.

In the gruesome world of Unit 731 of the Japanese Imperial Army, experiments with frostbite on human subjects became a favourite in a macabre litany of cruelty. Throughout the 1930s and '40s, until the end of World War II, the secret unit used Manchuria as a killing field. It was a case of science gone truly mad for the greater glory of the divine Emperor and Japan.

Apart from the frostbite experiments, prisoners were infected with diseases including anthrax, cholera and the bubonic plague. To gather data, human vivisections were performed. Whole villages and towns were infected with the plague and cholera.

In the end, at least 3000 prisoners, mainly Chinese, were killed directly, with a further 250,000 Chinese left to die through the biological warfare experiments.

It is called the Asian Auschwitz and, in terms of inhumanity and horror, it certainly warrants this description. Yet there remains a fundamental difference with the crimes perpetrated by the Nazis against Jews. While Germany has shown deep contrition and remorse, the leaders of the country that spawned the evil of Unit 731 still struggle to come to grips with what occurred.

This week in a Tokyo court, the world was again reminded of Japan's inability to deal with its march across Asia. In courtroom 103, three judges of the Tokyo District Court rejected a claim for an apology and compensation by 180 Chinese, either victims or the family of victims of Unit 731.

If there was anything positive out of the decision for the Chinese, it was that for the first time, a Japanese court had acknowledged that Unit 731 and other units had engaged in "cruel and inhumane" biological warfare in China, costing many lives.

But that was it. The judges claimed there was no legal basis for the plaintiffs' claim, as all compensation issues were settled by a treaty with China in 1972.

While it had an authoritative legal ring to it, there was a deep sense of injustice around the courtroom and among supporters waiting outside. How could a court acknowledge a crime had been committed, yet fail to do anything about it?

The Chinese are planning to appeal, but regardless of what may come out of that, one positive factor to emerge from this case has been that the international community - and, indeed, the Japanese themselves - has been reminded of one of the darkest hours of the Japanese Imperial Army.

Unit 731 was the creation of a brutal psychopath, Lieutenant-General Ishii Shiro. His perverted imagination was captured by the possibilities of biological and chemical warfare, and in the Japan of the 1920s and '30s, he found supporters in the increasingly nationalistic and fanatical military.

Part of his fame came from the invention of a water filter that would be used by the Japanese military in the field. Yet even this innocuous invention had a connection with the grossness of Ishii's character. He once reportedly demonstrated the effectiveness of the filter to Emperor Hirohito by urinating through it, and offering the result to the Hirohito to drink. The Emperor declined, so Ishii drank it himself.

Water purification was also to have a link with the grisly activities of Unit 731. The official cover name for the unit was the Water Purification Bureau.

This latest court case, which began in 1997, has revealed much about the operations of the unit. One of the most harrowing testimonies has come from a former member of the unit, Yoshio Shinozuka, who has declared his remorse, and has vowed to tell the truth about the atrocities committed in China.

Shinozuka revealed in horrific detail what occurred at the unit headquarters in Ping Fang, just outside Harbin in northern China. The Chinese victims were known as "logs", and it was Shinozuka's job to scrub them down before the vivisection.

"I still remember clearly the first live autopsy I participated in," he recalled. "I knew the Chinese individual we dissected alive because I had taken his blood once before for testing. At the vivisection, I could not meet his eyes because of the hate he had in his glare at me."

The victim had been infected with the plague, and was totally black. Shinozuka was reluctant to use the brush on the man's face. "Watching me, the chief pathologist, with scalpel in hand, impatiently signalled me to hurry up," he recalled. "I closed my eyes and forced myself to scrub the man's face with the deck brush. The chief pathologist listened to the man's heartbeat with his stethoscope and then the procedure started."

The case before the Tokyo court also heard from the victims, and family of the victims, in villages and towns infected by the plague and cholera between 1940 and 1942.

Peize Xue was a young boy in Jiangshan when the Japanese infected the area with cholera. He recalled how his sister's three children had been struck down: "The three little ones died such tragic deaths. They were poisoned by the Japanese army," she sobbed. "Before Shuanglan (aged eight) passed away, she asked me, lying limply on her bed, to build a small casket for her."Sixty years on, these testimonies have a powerful and revelatory impact, in part because the activities of Unit 731 and related units remained forgotten until relatively recently. It was only in 1981 that international attention refocused on these awful events when an American journalist, John W. Powell junior, published A Hidden Chapter in History, alleging an American cover-up. Since then, academics and journalists have built an impressive case that details how Ishii and other key players received immunity from prosecution in return for supplying their research to American scientists.

In his authoritative Factories of Death: Japanese Biological Warfare 1932-45, and the American Cover-up, Sheldon Harris recounts that the matter was raised only once at the Tokyo war crimes tribunal in 1946-48.

An American counsel assisting the Chinese, David N. Sutton, stunned the war crimes tribunal by saying: "The enemy . . . took our countrymen as prisoners and used them for drug experiments. They would inject various types of toxic bacteria into their bodies, and then perform experiments on how they reacted . . . this was an act of barbarism by our enemy."

According to the book, the presiding chief judge, Australia's Sir William Webb, asked: "Are you trying to tell us about a poison liquid being administered? Are you trying to provide more evidence? This is a new fact that you have presented before we judges."

The writer Sheldon Harris says that after a brief pause, Webb said: "How about letting this item go?" Sutton replied: "Well, then, I'll leave it." The issue never surfaced again, Harris writes.

Would things have been different if Allied soldiers were involved? There have always been suspicions and allegations that this happened at Camp Mukden in China, where Allied prisoners - including Australians - were held. Yet Sheldon, in his extensive research that contains many examples of the unit's activities, such as the frostbite experiments, was unable to find "substantive evidence" of this.

The immunity granted to those in Unit 731 saw the doctors involved return to mainstream Japanese society. In 1989, the now-defunct Japanese magazine Days Japan revealed how those who had escaped prosecution had gone on to take some of the most prestigious positions in the Japanese medical community.

The man who succeeded Ishii Shiro as commander of Unit 731, Dr Masaji Kitano, became head of Japan's largest pharmaceutical company, the Green Cross. Others took up posts heading university medical schools, and also worked in the Japanese healthministry.

This may in part explain the difficulty in confronting and acknowledging the activities of Unit 731, let alone compensating the victims. It is perhaps important to also distinguish between the response of the Japanese Government and the Japanese people.

Waiting in the long line this week to get into the courtroom, Kazuyo Yamane struck up a conversation. She lectures in peace studies at Japan's Kochi University, and had come to hear the decision because of a deep personal interest.

Yamane and other like-minded Japanese travelled to China in 1998 to find out more about the activities of Unit 731. "Because we didn't have any means to know what really happened, we decided to go and try to know what really happened," she says.

They spoke to people who had lost family members because of the biological warfare experiments. "We felt really guilty as Japanese," she says. As a result, the group decided to support the Chinese in their action.

Yamane believes that the Japanese Government should apologise and compensate the victims of the "terrible damage" done during the war in Asia. "That's what we citizens think. But I think there is a huge gap between the citizens and the Japanese Government.

"I think maybe now Japan is getting nationalistic, and the right-wingers are getting stronger."

In the only official comment on the day of the decision, the Japanese Justice Ministry said the court's decision verified the validity of the Japanese Government's position in refusing compensation and an apology to the victims of Unit 731.

Shane Green is The Age's Tokyo correspondent.

[Tsukiyono]

Well, if any of you is taking High School of University courses on WW2 histories you might want to start a research project about Japanese atrocities in Asia.

Well i figured this out after i got out of high school, and i dont think i will have the option to use it in college.. at least at current. But i have been reading everything i can on my own right now, i have been researching some and found some books and a few movies i want to get about it.. the movies not so sure about, but want to check them out anyway.

But as i dont have the means to go and go overseas to do any sort of research, i do most of it online.. so i cant fully trust all my sources. So please if anyone has any links or anything i can check out, please PM them to me or post them here. I have found many web sites and seen many pictures.

I got some of this all saved offline and i want to set something up for myself to make it easier to search through them all, just for my own personal benifit and what not. So please.. any info at all would be appreciated

In any case, Japan would be worse off if not for the A-bombs. The A-bombs saved Japan.

Well i for one have not ever liked the idea of the bomb, and i really dont like how it was dropped on civilans.. but if there was something mroe to it, then i dont know it, as i have not read much into it. So i could be mistaken

But i also do believe it saved japan, as many more would have died if a invasion of japans mainland would have commneced... many many more.


@Ahbian- Where did you find that article?

[yehzhaofeng]

Not just saddened, but horrified, and ticked off about it.

[Ryz05]

It's so sad that an author as talented as Iris Chang could commit suicide. Why would she commit suicide at the young age of 36? She had so much to live for! What about preserving the memories of Nanjing Massacre victims? Of making the Nanjing Massacre known to the whole world? Of making the Japanese government apologize for their monstrous atrocity? Her untimely death made me angry and sad at the same time.

The Rape of Nanking must never be forgotten. Just like a famous philospher once observed, "those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it." Spread the word and have people read her book. I never comprehended the massacre until I had read her book a week ago.

PS: On the Nanjing Memorial, it says that there were 300,000 victims, but wasn't there more than 300,000? It was more like 350,000 or more. It is better to overestimate the number of people killed than to underestimate the victims. What a tragedy to say that less people died in Nanjing than there were.

[lobster]

Probably the 300,000 does not include the raped/tortured/looted who survived.

[Ryz05]

Probably the 300,000 does not include the raped/tortured/looted who survived.

No, all the victims are considered dead as a result of the Japanese atrocities.

Does any of you know the details behind Iris's death? Was she going through depression or anything? Because her suicide, without any medical symptoms, seems kind of suspicious. There are many japanese fanatics out there who would kill anyone that popularize the Nanjing massacre, so maybe Iris was kidnapped and her murder made to appear as a suicide.

Edited by Ryz05, 23 June 2005 - 12:32 PM.

[Gweilo]

I visited the Nanking War Memorial last December (some photos from this are up in the Dragon Gate Inn). There is a large display hall at the memorial that goes into great detail about all the massacres and atrocities that occurred there. It is very hard (emotionally) to walk through the entire length of the hall, look at the displays, and read the whole story (yes it is displayed in English and Chinese). But I'm glad I did it. Anyway, I seem to recall something written to the effect that the 300,000 deaths is only an estimate, and the true number could be (and probably is) much higher.

[Ryz05]

I visited the Nanking War Memorial last December (some photos from this are up in the Dragon Gate Inn). There is a large display hall at the memorial that goes into great detail about all the massacres and atrocities that occurred there. It is very hard (emotionally) to walk through the entire length of the hall, look at the displays, and read the whole story (yes it is displayed in English and Chinese). But I'm glad I did it. Anyway, I seem to recall something written to the effect that the 300,000 deaths is only an estimate, and the true number could be (and probably is) much higher.

Well, I would say 350,000 is a better estimate. They should correct that number of 300,000 to make it less of an offense to many people and the victims.

Edited by Ryz05, 23 June 2005 - 12:36 PM.

[Tsukiyono]

Originally posted by Ryz05

On the Nanjing Memorial, it says that there were 300,000 victims, but wasn't there more than 300,000? It was more like 350,000 or more. It is better to overestimate the number of people killed than to underestimate the victims. What a tragedy to say that less people died in Nanjing than there were.

The Death toll estimates i have heard run from as low as 2000 (from some of the japanese soldiers of the time) to as high as 500,000. It seems though that the general concenses now will place the most accurate number between 300,000 and 350,000. These are the numbers i have seen most often.

Originally posted by lobster

Probably the 300,000 does not include the raped/tortured/looted who survived.

Those are in most cases seperate numbers. Unless the people who were then raped/torture/looted were killed afterwards.

The estimated number of rape victims, to the best of my knowledge i believe was estimated to be about 80,000 women(age various). The amount of looting and arson, i forget the exact amount right now, but i believe like 75% of the city was either looted and or burned as well. But i could be wrong on that one.

Originally posted by Ryz05

Does any of you know the details behind Iris's death? Was she going through depression or anything? Because her suicide, without any medical symptoms, seems kind of suspicious. There are many japanese fanatics out there who would kill anyone that popularize the Nanjing massacre, so maybe Iris was kidnapped and her murder made to appear as a suicide.

If i am to believe some of the news clippings, and what i believe i read on this forum here somewhere, she was suffereing from depression. and had just been released from the hospital before this happened. I will look for the thread i seen this in and post a link.

Originally posted by Gweilo

I visited the Nanking War Memorial last December (some photos from this are up in the Dragon Gate Inn). There is a large display hall at the memorial that goes into great detail about all the massacres and atrocities that occurred there. It is very hard (emotionally) to walk through the entire length of the hall, look at the displays, and read the whole story (yes it is displayed in English and Chinese). But I'm glad I did it. Anyway, I seem to recall something written to the effect that the 300,000 deaths is only an estimate, and the true number could be (and probably is) much higher.

I would like to sometime in the future take a trip to china. Outside of my own interest, i dont have a reason to. Im not chinese or anything. I love how the architecture of that part of the world seems to work together with nature, it all looks really nice. I would like to go to the place you mentioned in Nanjiang, and i have seen images of the gardens in hangzhao <SP> and would love to see them as well.

[lobster]

The estimated number of rape victims, to the best of my knowledge i believe was estimated to be about 80,000 women(age various).

Hmm any source? 80,000 would sound quite lame to me.

[Tsukiyono]

The main source i got that number from was Iris Changs book. In it she writes that the estimates range from as low as 20,000 to as high as 80,000.

I for one believe it was higher still, once you take into account the fact that there was probably some women who didnt come forward, for either shame or any number of other reasons, then there were those ones who also took their lives afterwards. There were masses of people taken from the city, mostly males, but i wouldnt be surprised of some women were also taken from the city as well.

If i had to guess as to a more accurate number, i would have guessed at least 100,000... but... either way you look at it, the treatment that was handed out to these women was ghastly.


EDIT. Ryz05.. here are the links i mentioned, the first one is the one where it talks about her breakdown a bit. The second one is another thread from here as well

http://www.chinahist...wtopic=1489&hl=

http://www.chinahist...wtopic=1511&hl=

Edited by Tsukiyono, 23 June 2005 - 02:01 PM.

[Ryz05]

Thank you for the links.

As to the number of rape victims of 80,000, does that include the number of people that are raped and killed? Or raped and lived? Or both? Because some numbers might have gotten lost in the body counts of 350,000. If it's raped and survived, then many victims would not have come forth due to social discrimination. Either way, the number is probably higher than 80,000 if you think that more than 350,000 people had been killed.