My dear Chaozhou,
Just have a look at my post:
http://www.chinahist...?showtopic=1559
The origin of Chaozhou ethnic group:
The Chaozhou people today are descendants of Zhao people from Zhaoguo (North China) in warring states time (403 to 222 BC). In 214 BC, Qin Shihuang sent Du Sui and 500,000 people (including many Zhao people) to attack Baiyue. In 208 BC Zhao Tuo (a Zhao person, his homeland is Zhen Ding district ) lorded over a large region around Guangzhou today, to establish Nanyue kingdom. In 111 BC, Han Yu Di sent Lu Bo De to attack Nanyue. The Nanyue kingdom became a district of Xi Han.
Zhao people (were sent to Baiyue) live in group next to Minyue (Northeastern Guangdong) and become Chaozhou people today.
-----------
My research is also based on stories of my grand fathers from Chaozhou...
Chaozhou people' s origin
Started by
Guest_Zhang_Taiyou_*
, Nov 18 2004 10:41 AM
73 replies to this topic
#17
Guest_Kandie_*
Guest_Kandie_*
-
- Guest
Posted 10 April 2005 - 07:18 PM
But Zhang Taiyu, the Teochewnang arrived at Guangdong relatively late---as late as Song.
It is very hard to back up colonization of the Chao-Shan region as early as Zhao Tuo, as the political centers of Nanyue was all the way to the west, near modern day Shixing and Wuzhou. Zhao Tuo, along with the Qin army, colonized the region via the northern tributaryof the Pearl River (Bei Jiang) and the western tributary(Xi Jiang). Guangxin (Shixing) and Wuzhou lied on teh path of Xijiang.
Eastern Guangdong was very mountaneous and was not preferred for Huaxia settlement till relatively late.
I believe the Teochewnang came from Quanzhou via sea route as land route was quite impossible to pass till Song Dynasty and the colonization of Meizhou by the Hakka as late as Yuan and Ming.
It is very hard to back up colonization of the Chao-Shan region as early as Zhao Tuo, as the political centers of Nanyue was all the way to the west, near modern day Shixing and Wuzhou. Zhao Tuo, along with the Qin army, colonized the region via the northern tributaryof the Pearl River (Bei Jiang) and the western tributary(Xi Jiang). Guangxin (Shixing) and Wuzhou lied on teh path of Xijiang.
Eastern Guangdong was very mountaneous and was not preferred for Huaxia settlement till relatively late.
I believe the Teochewnang came from Quanzhou via sea route as land route was quite impossible to pass till Song Dynasty and the colonization of Meizhou by the Hakka as late as Yuan and Ming.
#18
Guest_like2learn_*
Guest_like2learn_*
-
- Guest
Posted 10 April 2005 - 10:46 PM
i am a Teochew/gaginang from cambodia, born in viet, also very interested to know my background, since i don't feel like, i am vietnamese, or chinese, or cambodia.
judging by the way teochew peoples always interested in businesses, i reckon we are properly on the Merchent class in chinese society, compartable to the JEWS. if you are born in a teochew family by the time are you 18, you are as good as having done 2years in business degree. ( i couldn't be wrong)Oi i jak sai
Oh man, don't feel bad about your background. If your background was good in china, your ancestors would not move out of china. Based on the link http://gaginang.org/...t/index.php?p=4
the Pubing culture, I think your ultimately traceable root was the Bai Yue (Bach Viet or 100 Yue). There is nothing wrong for you to feel that you are Vietnamese or Chinese. Just think why you are here and be loyal to the country that you are in.
#19
Ziwei
-
- Master Scholar (Juren)
-
- 26 posts
Prefect (Taishou 太守)
- Gender:Female
- Location:Singaporean in Austria
- Languages spoken:English, Mandarin, German, Teochew, Hokkien, Cantonese, and a wee bit of Malay
- Ethnic Groups or Race:Teochew
-
Main Interest in CHF:
Chinese Ethnicities,Peoples
-
Specialisation / Expertise:
None... :(
Posted 12 April 2005 - 02:24 PM
And now i'm supposed to be descended from the Zhao people from the warring times??? 
But guys ( i presume u all r males), thanks for the info and insight 
But guys ( i presume u all r males), thanks for the info and insight
#20
AhMan
-
- Entry Scholar (Xiucai)
-
- 495 posts
Grand Mentor (Taishi 太师)
Posted 14 April 2005 - 10:45 AM
Is fish ball an invention of Teochew people?
I've eaten Teochew shuijiao. It's definitely where Vietnamese shuijiao originated from.
I've eaten Teochew shuijiao. It's definitely where Vietnamese shuijiao originated from.
한국아가씨아주섹시오
#21
AhMan
-
- Entry Scholar (Xiucai)
-
- 495 posts
Grand Mentor (Taishi 太师)
Posted 14 April 2005 - 10:47 AM
If teochew migrated from Fujian then who are Fujianese? I guess they all from the promixal areas like Wenzhou, NanChang, Hangzhou areas right?
한국아가씨아주섹시오
#22
浪淘音
-
- CHF Grand Historian Award
-
- 628 posts
State Undersecretary (Shangshu Lang 尚书郎)
Posted 16 April 2005 - 10:29 AM
I'm a pure teochew Singaporean and have been brought up believing i'm a Han chinese. However i've recently found out thru CHF that the teochews were part of the Min who migrated away from the overcrowded Fujian province (pls crrect me if i'm wrong) So, am i a Min? or a Han? or is the Min part of the Han? I can't find the Min as part of the 56 ethnic groups listed out. Can anyone advise? It might sound simple and clear to you guys, but to me, my brain doesn't seem to work in the same way
i've met alot of chao zhou ren, Kejia, Guangdong ren,etc,etc who think they are non-Han. very bizzare
#23
AhMan
-
- Entry Scholar (Xiucai)
-
- 495 posts
Grand Mentor (Taishi 太师)
Posted 16 April 2005 - 11:11 AM
I think because they don't understand what the term Han means. If you ask them whether they are Hua then they will definitely say yes. Han is a modern concept based on historical records right?
한국아가씨아주섹시오
#24
Guest_Zhang_Taiyou_*
Guest_Zhang_Taiyou_*
-
- Guest
Posted 16 April 2005 - 02:03 PM
No my friend, Han is not a modern concept. We have 好 汉 (hao han) long long ago...
#25
AhMan
-
- Entry Scholar (Xiucai)
-
- 495 posts
Grand Mentor (Taishi 太师)
Posted 17 April 2005 - 11:21 AM
well, it's not modern but it was not popular among common people, especially southerners. I think Han concept was more serious in the North when foreigners constantly invaded and executed Han.
한국아가씨아주섹시오
#26
Holamon
-
- CHF Beginner
-
- 15 posts
Prefect (Taishou 太守)
Posted 17 April 2005 - 01:00 PM
i've met alot of chao zhou ren, Kejia, Guangdong ren,etc,etc who think they are non-Han. very bizzare
Well, if you ask them if they are Tang Ren (Tang people), they will definitely say yes.
#27
General_Zhaoyun
-
- Admin
-
- 12,048 posts
Grand Valiant General of Imperial Han Army
- Gender:Male
- Location:Singapore (Taiwanese/Singapore Permanent Resident)
- Interests:Chinese History, Chinese Philosophy and Religion, Chinese languages, Minnan/Taiwanese language, Classical Chinese, General Chinese Culture
- Languages spoken:Mandarin, Taiwanese (Hokkien), English, German, Singlish
- Ethnic Groups or Race:Han Chinese (Taiwanese Hoklo)
-
Main Interest in CHF:
General Chinese Culture
-
Specialisation / Expertise:
Chinese Language, History and Culture
Posted 22 April 2005 - 08:50 AM
The "Tang people" term had more influence among the cantonese people (Guangdong Ren) because during Tang dynasty, many northern han-chinese migrated to the south to Canton (Guangzhou). Canton was a prosperous port during Tang dynasty, and the cantonese were proud of the Tang culture, not to mention that the cantonese language was quite related to the middle chinese language of the north. So much so, Cantonese people like to refer themselves as "Tang ren" (Tang people).
As for 'han', it's a term dating back to the foundation of han dynasty in 202 BC, where the chinese people became known as han-ren or han-chinese. However, note that Fujian and Guangdong was only conquered later during Wudi's time, and the Yue people there do not consider themselves as 'han-chinese'.
The 'han-chinese' term concept became only strong during Ming dynasty, where the chinese would need to re-assert themselves as han-chinese to 'rebel' the Mongols out of China. So was the 'han-chinese' concept strong during the Manchu occupation of China of Qing dynasty.
The 'han-chinese' thus is modern concept. Even the 'chinese' people (Zhong Guo Ren) only became official after the establishment of ROC (Republic of China) in 1911.
Teochews are considered part of the Min dialect group within the han-chinese ethnicity. The teochew dialect is quite similar to Hokkien (Fujianese/Holo/Taiwanese) and being a Taiwanese myself, I can understand up to 50% of Teochew.
The Teochews originated from Swatow (Shantou region) of Guangdong province, where the dialect is spoken. In Singapore and Thailand, there is a large teochew community.
As for 'han', it's a term dating back to the foundation of han dynasty in 202 BC, where the chinese people became known as han-ren or han-chinese. However, note that Fujian and Guangdong was only conquered later during Wudi's time, and the Yue people there do not consider themselves as 'han-chinese'.
The 'han-chinese' term concept became only strong during Ming dynasty, where the chinese would need to re-assert themselves as han-chinese to 'rebel' the Mongols out of China. So was the 'han-chinese' concept strong during the Manchu occupation of China of Qing dynasty.
The 'han-chinese' thus is modern concept. Even the 'chinese' people (Zhong Guo Ren) only became official after the establishment of ROC (Republic of China) in 1911.
Teochews are considered part of the Min dialect group within the han-chinese ethnicity. The teochew dialect is quite similar to Hokkien (Fujianese/Holo/Taiwanese) and being a Taiwanese myself, I can understand up to 50% of Teochew.
The Teochews originated from Swatow (Shantou region) of Guangdong province, where the dialect is spoken. In Singapore and Thailand, there is a large teochew community.
"夫君子之行：靜以修身，儉以養德；非淡泊無以明志，非寧靜無以致遠。" - 諸葛亮
One should seek serenity to cultivate the body, thriftiness to cultivate the morals. If you are not simple and frugal, your ambition will not sparkle. If you are not calm and cool, you will not reach far. - Zhugeliang
#28
Registered
-
- CHF Beginner
-
- 9 posts
County Magistrate (Xianling 县令)
Posted 11 July 2005 - 11:26 PM
If anyone could help, I'd like to know a little more about the origins of the Teo Chiu people. Thank you
Edited by Registered, 21 December 2007 - 05:43 AM.
#29
Yun
-
- CHF Han Lin Scholar
-
- 9,057 posts
Sage-King
- Gender:Male
- Location:Singapore/USA
- Interests:Ancient Chinese history, with a focus on the Age of Fragmentation. Chinese ethnicities, religion, philosophy, music, and art and material culture. Military history in general.
-
Main Interest in CHF:
Chinese History
-
Specialisation / Expertise:
Three Kingdoms, Age of Fragmentation, Sui-Tang
Posted 11 July 2005 - 11:40 PM
On the origins of the Chaozhou 潮州 (Teochew) people, refer to this thread for a theory that they originated from the northern Warring State of Zhao in the Shanxi region:
http://www.chinahist...?showtopic=1559
[Edit: I've now merged the two threads.]
http://www.chinahist...?showtopic=1559
[Edit: I've now merged the two threads.]
The dead have passed beyond our power to honour or dishonour them, but not beyond our ability to try and understand.
#30
kaixin
-
- CHF Beginner
-
- 618 posts
State Undersecretary (Shangshu Lang 尚书郎)
Posted 11 July 2005 - 11:55 PM
Chaozhao (Teochew, Chiuchow) people are from the same stock as Taiwanese Hoklo and southern Fujian people (esp. in Xiamen area). Li Kashing (Hong Kong's richest person) is of Chiuchow ancestry.
All southern Han (Cantonese, Hakka, Fukien, Chiuchow, etc.) at one time must have been of the same ancestors and locale. We all came from Tang. Our ancestors were driven south due to the turbulence in the north. Mountains separated us that is how our dialects developed the way they are today.
All southern Han (Cantonese, Hakka, Fukien, Chiuchow, etc.) at one time must have been of the same ancestors and locale. We all came from Tang. Our ancestors were driven south due to the turbulence in the north. Mountains separated us that is how our dialects developed the way they are today.
Edited by kaixin, 11 July 2005 - 11:55 PM.
1 user(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users
