I noticed that every dialect group has been covered in this thread. I just want to add my own. The Toisan (Taishan) people are a little known sub-branch of the Cantonese people. Cantonese people are often said to be divided into 2 branch dialect groups: the Sam Yup (3 district group) and the Sei Yup (4 district group). Guangzhou, Hong Kong, Macau and Zhongshan belongs to the Sam Yup, while Toisan, Xinhui, Kaiping belongs to the Sei Yup. I believe that Sam Yup Cantonese had undergone more influences from Mandarin than compared to Sei Yup and Toisan languages.
But, the more important factor is that Toisan people contributed to the early history of Chinese in America. Many of them challenged the early unjust and racist laws and actions of white Americans against Chinese and other Asians. Their forefathers worked the railways and goldmines of America. Their descendants today are in danger of fading into oblivion, integration, intermarriage and amalgamation with other cultures in America. Good thing or bad, I don't know?
I want Cantonese and esp. Toisan descended people to know that they come from a glorious tradition.
There is a 'secret' of our history that I need to share.
Sze Yap Yan(Si Yi Ren)...
Started by
kaixin
, Sep 01 2005 02:46 AM
66 replies to this topic
#1
kaixin
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Posted 01 September 2005 - 02:46 AM
#2
kaixin
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Posted 01 September 2005 - 02:48 AM
This are some good and informative sites about our early history:
http://www.legacy1.net/index.html
http://www.legacy1.net/taishan.html
http://www.legacy1.net/xinhui.html
In 214 BC the Qin Dynasty (¯³) conquered Nanyue («n¶V) and divided the area into three quon (°p) or prefectures, Guilin (®ÛªL), Namhoi («n®ü), and Cheung (¶H). Xinhui was part of Namhoi quon («n®ü°p).
Things remained relatively unchanged until the Three Kingdom period (¤T°ê®É¥N). In 222 AD, one of the Kingdoms, Wu (§d), established Wuyee County (ªZ¦i¿¤) which approximately where present Xinhui is situated. The name was changed to Xinyee (·s¦i) in 280 AD. Sine the word yee (¦i) means barbarians then it is not difficult to conclude this part of China was not exactly civilized. In actual fact the northerner, the inhabitants north of the Yangtze, commonly referred the inhabitants across the river and beyond as Southern Barbarians («nÆZ¤l).
The name Xinhui (·s·|) first appeared in 420 when Xinhui Quon (·s·|°p) which initially contained three and later increased to twelve counties was established. It covered a large area including the entire present Xinhui, Taishan (¥x¤s), Heshan (Åb¤s), Kaiping (¶}¥), Shunde (¶¶¼w), southeast portion of both Xinxing (·s¿³) and Gaoming (°ª©ú), eastern portion of Enping (®¦¥), northeastern and eastern portions of Zhongshan (¤¤¤s).
The next major change came in 590 AD when it and six other counties were placed under the jurisdiction of Feng Zhou («Ê¦{). The next year it was renamed E Zhou ((¤¹¦{)) which two years later was changed to Gong Zhou (©£¦{). Gong Zhou was also the name of town where the Xinhui administration was located. Many historians believe it is located at the southwest corner of present day Xinxing. During the ensuring 130 years, there were many flip-flops on Gong Zhou. Finally, Gong Zhou was abolished and the land was divided into two counties, Xinhui and Yeening (¸q¹ç), under the jurisdiction of Guangzhou (¼s¦{). Xinhui's boundaries were finally established and remained unchanged until 1152.
From 1152-1732 the following counties were established by partitioned land from Xinhui. The first, in 1152, to be established was Huengshan (»¤s) which was renamed in the 20th century to Zhongshan (¤¤¤s). It is the birthday place of the father of modern China, Dr. Sun Yat-sen. Following the Chinese tradition of not using the country's chief executive's (prime minister) personal name but the county of origin. Thus to the Chinese he is generally known as Sun Zhongshan (®]¤¤¤s). Three other counties were established in fairly rapid fashion: Shunde (1452), Enping (1478) and Xinning (·s¹ç)(1499). The final two partitions took place during the Qing Dynasty (²M´Â), Kaiping (1649) and Heshan (1732).
Xinhui will always be remembered as where, Yamen (±Vªù), the army of the Southern Sung Dynasty («n§º), in 1279, made its last stand against the invading all-conquering Mongolian army. The prime minister, Luk Shiufu (³°¨q¤Ò), determining that both himself and the emperor should never be captured, strapped the eight year-old child onto his back and jumped off the cliff into the water below.
The story doesn't end here. Legend has it that days later a monk found the body of a young boy in a yellow robe (traditionally yellow is the colour reserved for the royal family) floating in the open sea. The body was sheltered by birds. After collecting the body and upon close examination the monk discovered the royal seal (¥Éâ) which confirmed the body was that of the boy emperor. Quietly the monk buried the body and it wasn't till years later before words of this grave got out. Now each Qing Ming (²M©ú) the Chiu (Zhao) Association in Hong Kong visits grave and pays its respect. The legend and photo of the grave are provided by Henry Chiu.
Another legend is that this child emperor hung his robe on a lychee tree before the fatal event. From then onward, lychees from the area all have a green strip and the sweetest (±¾ºñ¯ïªK).
http://www.legacy1.net/index.html
http://www.legacy1.net/taishan.html
http://www.legacy1.net/xinhui.html
In 214 BC the Qin Dynasty (¯³) conquered Nanyue («n¶V) and divided the area into three quon (°p) or prefectures, Guilin (®ÛªL), Namhoi («n®ü), and Cheung (¶H). Xinhui was part of Namhoi quon («n®ü°p).
Things remained relatively unchanged until the Three Kingdom period (¤T°ê®É¥N). In 222 AD, one of the Kingdoms, Wu (§d), established Wuyee County (ªZ¦i¿¤) which approximately where present Xinhui is situated. The name was changed to Xinyee (·s¦i) in 280 AD. Sine the word yee (¦i) means barbarians then it is not difficult to conclude this part of China was not exactly civilized. In actual fact the northerner, the inhabitants north of the Yangtze, commonly referred the inhabitants across the river and beyond as Southern Barbarians («nÆZ¤l).
The name Xinhui (·s·|) first appeared in 420 when Xinhui Quon (·s·|°p) which initially contained three and later increased to twelve counties was established. It covered a large area including the entire present Xinhui, Taishan (¥x¤s), Heshan (Åb¤s), Kaiping (¶}¥), Shunde (¶¶¼w), southeast portion of both Xinxing (·s¿³) and Gaoming (°ª©ú), eastern portion of Enping (®¦¥), northeastern and eastern portions of Zhongshan (¤¤¤s).
The next major change came in 590 AD when it and six other counties were placed under the jurisdiction of Feng Zhou («Ê¦{). The next year it was renamed E Zhou ((¤¹¦{)) which two years later was changed to Gong Zhou (©£¦{). Gong Zhou was also the name of town where the Xinhui administration was located. Many historians believe it is located at the southwest corner of present day Xinxing. During the ensuring 130 years, there were many flip-flops on Gong Zhou. Finally, Gong Zhou was abolished and the land was divided into two counties, Xinhui and Yeening (¸q¹ç), under the jurisdiction of Guangzhou (¼s¦{). Xinhui's boundaries were finally established and remained unchanged until 1152.
From 1152-1732 the following counties were established by partitioned land from Xinhui. The first, in 1152, to be established was Huengshan (»¤s) which was renamed in the 20th century to Zhongshan (¤¤¤s). It is the birthday place of the father of modern China, Dr. Sun Yat-sen. Following the Chinese tradition of not using the country's chief executive's (prime minister) personal name but the county of origin. Thus to the Chinese he is generally known as Sun Zhongshan (®]¤¤¤s). Three other counties were established in fairly rapid fashion: Shunde (1452), Enping (1478) and Xinning (·s¹ç)(1499). The final two partitions took place during the Qing Dynasty (²M´Â), Kaiping (1649) and Heshan (1732).
Xinhui will always be remembered as where, Yamen (±Vªù), the army of the Southern Sung Dynasty («n§º), in 1279, made its last stand against the invading all-conquering Mongolian army. The prime minister, Luk Shiufu (³°¨q¤Ò), determining that both himself and the emperor should never be captured, strapped the eight year-old child onto his back and jumped off the cliff into the water below.
The story doesn't end here. Legend has it that days later a monk found the body of a young boy in a yellow robe (traditionally yellow is the colour reserved for the royal family) floating in the open sea. The body was sheltered by birds. After collecting the body and upon close examination the monk discovered the royal seal (¥Éâ) which confirmed the body was that of the boy emperor. Quietly the monk buried the body and it wasn't till years later before words of this grave got out. Now each Qing Ming (²M©ú) the Chiu (Zhao) Association in Hong Kong visits grave and pays its respect. The legend and photo of the grave are provided by Henry Chiu.
Another legend is that this child emperor hung his robe on a lychee tree before the fatal event. From then onward, lychees from the area all have a green strip and the sweetest (±¾ºñ¯ïªK).
Edited by kaixin, 01 September 2005 - 02:49 AM.
#3
kaixin
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Posted 01 September 2005 - 02:55 AM
http://www.legacy1.net/nanxiong.html
Nanxiong county lies in the northeast part of Guangdong province. It has 24 towns and a population of 440,000. Historically, Nanxiong connected Guangdong and Jiangxi which made it the key junction between northern and southern China. It was a marketplace and the central point in the exchange of goods and cultures between Central China and the outpost Guangdong.
As with all ancient towns, there are many places of historic interest. We, however, are primarily interested in Zhuji Lane (¯]¿Y«Ñ). It lies in the Meiguan ancient post road (±öÃö¥jÅæ¹D), nine kilometers from the northern part of Nanxiong county.
Zhuji Lane was first called Jingzong Lane (·q©v«Ñ). The change came about during the Tang Dynasty (ð´Â). According to folklore, seven generations of the Zhang Chang (±i©÷) family lived together in Jingzong Lane. The Imperial court in 825AD bestowed upon them a1 pearl lace for this filial obedience. The following year, the emperor died and his official clan temple title (©v¼që¬) was Jingzong. In ancient China it was a common or rather imperative practice to avoid using the same characters as the names and titles of the emperors. Thus Jingzong Lane was changed to Zhuji Lane for this purpose and also to commemorate the honour received by the Zhang Chang family. Zhuji Lane is 1,500 meters long and 4 meters wide. It is paved with cobble stone. There are village houses and memorial temples on each side of the road. Shops are connected with each other, winding straight but orderly, uneven and protruding but naturally. Along this lane in addition to ancient buildings and ruins are bridges, pond and river.
Because of its geographic location, Zhuji Lane became very prosperous during the Tang and Song dynasties. It was a true melting pot where north met south and people with different surnames became neighbours. At the end of the Song Dynasty (§º´Â), Zhuji Lane residents migrated southward to the Pearl (Zhujiang) River delta ( ¯]¦¿¤T¨¤¬w) to avoid the invading Mongolian army. It was an exodus because a total of 134 surnames and thousands of people were involved. They helped to spread the more advanced Central Plain culture and production techniques to the then still relatively uninhabited southern frontier. The city of Guangzhou has a Zhuji Road (¯]¿Y¸ô) which is supposingly named to commemorate many of the city residents' place of origin.
1 Source: History Subordinate to Nanxiong county
Nanxiong county lies in the northeast part of Guangdong province. It has 24 towns and a population of 440,000. Historically, Nanxiong connected Guangdong and Jiangxi which made it the key junction between northern and southern China. It was a marketplace and the central point in the exchange of goods and cultures between Central China and the outpost Guangdong.
As with all ancient towns, there are many places of historic interest. We, however, are primarily interested in Zhuji Lane (¯]¿Y«Ñ). It lies in the Meiguan ancient post road (±öÃö¥jÅæ¹D), nine kilometers from the northern part of Nanxiong county.
Zhuji Lane was first called Jingzong Lane (·q©v«Ñ). The change came about during the Tang Dynasty (ð´Â). According to folklore, seven generations of the Zhang Chang (±i©÷) family lived together in Jingzong Lane. The Imperial court in 825AD bestowed upon them a1 pearl lace for this filial obedience. The following year, the emperor died and his official clan temple title (©v¼që¬) was Jingzong. In ancient China it was a common or rather imperative practice to avoid using the same characters as the names and titles of the emperors. Thus Jingzong Lane was changed to Zhuji Lane for this purpose and also to commemorate the honour received by the Zhang Chang family. Zhuji Lane is 1,500 meters long and 4 meters wide. It is paved with cobble stone. There are village houses and memorial temples on each side of the road. Shops are connected with each other, winding straight but orderly, uneven and protruding but naturally. Along this lane in addition to ancient buildings and ruins are bridges, pond and river.
Because of its geographic location, Zhuji Lane became very prosperous during the Tang and Song dynasties. It was a true melting pot where north met south and people with different surnames became neighbours. At the end of the Song Dynasty (§º´Â), Zhuji Lane residents migrated southward to the Pearl (Zhujiang) River delta ( ¯]¦¿¤T¨¤¬w) to avoid the invading Mongolian army. It was an exodus because a total of 134 surnames and thousands of people were involved. They helped to spread the more advanced Central Plain culture and production techniques to the then still relatively uninhabited southern frontier. The city of Guangzhou has a Zhuji Road (¯]¿Y¸ô) which is supposingly named to commemorate many of the city residents' place of origin.
1 Source: History Subordinate to Nanxiong county
#4
kaixin
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Posted 01 September 2005 - 03:02 AM
So, there you have it. This is our history of the Toisan and Cantonese origins. We have native Yue as well as Tang/Song aristocrats-soldiers in our blood.
Our ancestors battled Kublai Khan until the death do us part. The last Song emperor is buried in our ancestors land. I know his spirit continues to bless Guangdong and Cantonese people.
Our ancestors battled Kublai Khan until the death do us part. The last Song emperor is buried in our ancestors land. I know his spirit continues to bless Guangdong and Cantonese people.
#5
foldup_gryphon
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Posted 01 September 2005 - 05:20 AM
I have to completely rewrite my essay because I have wrongfully assumed Meng family was from the ancient Song State when in fact it was from Qi.
It is recorded by 214 Before Christian Era, Qin General Ming Tien and Qin General Chao To had conquered Fukien, Kwantung, Kwangsi, and Tongking. Soon after, Qin General Ming Tien was sent north to start his ill fated project to complete and to unify the famous Great Wall of China. Qin General Chao To remained in the south looking after the southern conquest.
A previous theory had postulated Qin General Chao To were from the state of Zhao the same as his name sake. The theory goes it was he who led the Tiu Chow people from north china to settle in northeast Guangdong. Taishan people and their home region though separated from the Tiu Chow people and Tiu Chow home region geographically has been closely linked to them ethnically. The Taishan people also have close cultural and historical ties to Chao Kuang Yin’s Song Dynasty. The founder of the Song Dynasty must have thought his Chao clan were descendants of the ancient Song State to name his new empire after it. The ancient Song State was an off shoot of the Shang 商 Dynasty.
Since Qin General Chao To clan name is identical to that of the Song Emperors’ I can put forward an alternative theory to the origin of the Tiu Chow people and associated Taishan people. My hypotheses is Qin General Chao To like that of the Song Emperors’ were originally of the descent from the ancient Song State and is therefore associated and identified with the epithet Shang 商. It is recorded (Sima Qian, Historical Records, The Annals of Qin) that deserters, no good sons in law, and merchants were conscripted in to the army that conquered Luliang. My assumption is Shang 商 has been misidentified with merchants. The Qin army that campaigned in south China were partly composed of Song people led by Qin General Chao To who was also of Song and therefore Shang 商 origin.
It is recorded in Sima Qian, Historical Records, The Story of the Rebel Chen Sheng, that the Bai Yue 百越 were deployed in Guilin and Xiang which would mean another different army were guarding Nanhai. This other army was the people of the Song State with the epithet Shang 商, and in accord with the Later Han Historical Records let by Chao To. It was they who were guarding Nanhai and their descendants are the Tiu Chow people. As the Taishan people are related to the Tiu Chow people, the Taishan people could also be partly descended from the army led by Chao To. Taishan people are also partly descended from later north migrants.
It is recorded by 214 Before Christian Era, Qin General Ming Tien and Qin General Chao To had conquered Fukien, Kwantung, Kwangsi, and Tongking. Soon after, Qin General Ming Tien was sent north to start his ill fated project to complete and to unify the famous Great Wall of China. Qin General Chao To remained in the south looking after the southern conquest.
A previous theory had postulated Qin General Chao To were from the state of Zhao the same as his name sake. The theory goes it was he who led the Tiu Chow people from north china to settle in northeast Guangdong. Taishan people and their home region though separated from the Tiu Chow people and Tiu Chow home region geographically has been closely linked to them ethnically. The Taishan people also have close cultural and historical ties to Chao Kuang Yin’s Song Dynasty. The founder of the Song Dynasty must have thought his Chao clan were descendants of the ancient Song State to name his new empire after it. The ancient Song State was an off shoot of the Shang 商 Dynasty.
Since Qin General Chao To clan name is identical to that of the Song Emperors’ I can put forward an alternative theory to the origin of the Tiu Chow people and associated Taishan people. My hypotheses is Qin General Chao To like that of the Song Emperors’ were originally of the descent from the ancient Song State and is therefore associated and identified with the epithet Shang 商. It is recorded (Sima Qian, Historical Records, The Annals of Qin) that deserters, no good sons in law, and merchants were conscripted in to the army that conquered Luliang. My assumption is Shang 商 has been misidentified with merchants. The Qin army that campaigned in south China were partly composed of Song people led by Qin General Chao To who was also of Song and therefore Shang 商 origin.
It is recorded in Sima Qian, Historical Records, The Story of the Rebel Chen Sheng, that the Bai Yue 百越 were deployed in Guilin and Xiang which would mean another different army were guarding Nanhai. This other army was the people of the Song State with the epithet Shang 商, and in accord with the Later Han Historical Records let by Chao To. It was they who were guarding Nanhai and their descendants are the Tiu Chow people. As the Taishan people are related to the Tiu Chow people, the Taishan people could also be partly descended from the army led by Chao To. Taishan people are also partly descended from later north migrants.
Edited by foldup_gryphon, 02 September 2005 - 04:42 AM.
#6
phoenix_bladen
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Posted 02 September 2005 - 01:42 AM
Hey Kaixin this is great news thanks for this much info!!
#7
tongyan
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Posted 02 September 2005 - 03:08 AM
From 1152-1732 the following counties were established by partitioned land from Xinhui. The first, in 1152, to be established was Huengshan (»¤s) which was renamed in the 20th century to Zhongshan (¤¤¤s). It is the birthday place of the father of modern China, Dr. Sun Yat-sen. Following the Chinese tradition of not using the country's chief executive's (prime minister) personal name but the county of origin. Thus to the Chinese he is generally known as Sun Zhongshan (®]¤¤¤s).
I am kind of confused by the naming of »¤s - did they just arbitrarily change their name to ¤¤¤s in the 20th century then the Chinese started to refer to Dr. Sun Yat-sen as Sun Zhongshan (®]¤¤¤s)?
I think this portion is incorrect. I believe »¤s was renamed to ¤¤¤s in commemoration of Dr. Sun Yat-sen, not the other way around. (Can you give another example of where a Chinese prime minister was known by his county name rather than personal name?) Dr. Sun Yat-sen got the name Sun Zhongshan as a result of studying in Japan, where he used the name Nakayama Sho (¤¤¤s¾ö). Upon his return to China the name ¤¤¤s Zhongshan stuck since it has positive connotative connections to China (Middle Mountain).
#8
Lin Duanwen
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Posted 02 September 2005 - 10:11 AM
Any info about Heshan? My grandfather came from Guangdong Province, Heshan County, Zhishan Town, Pingsha Villiage.
My 1st ancestor of Heshan, Lin Songqi, came from Fujian to settle in Heshan during the Song Dynasty. So I'm not sure whether we have mixed blood with the Yue people.
By the way, I'm also curious to know who are my 'tongxiang'(Sei Yap people) in CHF.
My 1st ancestor of Heshan, Lin Songqi, came from Fujian to settle in Heshan during the Song Dynasty. So I'm not sure whether we have mixed blood with the Yue people.
By the way, I'm also curious to know who are my 'tongxiang'(Sei Yap people) in CHF.
Flying Phoenix 飛鸞隱士
#9
qrasy
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Posted 02 September 2005 - 11:07 AM
Here is some maps of Guangdong 广东 (You can find Heshan 鹤山, Zhishan 址山 there):Any info about Heshan? My grandfather came from Guangdong Province, Heshan County, Zhishan Town, Pingsha Villiage.
http://www.sinomaps....9/39_120_25.jpg
http://www.ctrip.com...oup/4108map.htm
If you meant 'Yue' of 'BaiYue' then yes, IMO Hokkien is more 'Yue' than Cantonese.My 1st ancestor of Heshan, Lin Songqi, came from Fujian to settle in Heshan during the Song Dynasty. So I'm not sure whether we have mixed blood with the Yue people.
Edited by qrasy, 02 September 2005 - 11:24 AM.
The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie—deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic. Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. - JFK
#10
foldup_gryphon
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Posted 02 September 2005 - 11:40 AM
Any info about Heshan? My grandfather came from Guangdong Province, Heshan County, Zhishan Town, Pingsha Villiage.
My 1st ancestor of Heshan, Lin Songqi, came from Fujian to settle in Heshan during the Song Dynasty. So I'm not sure whether we have mixed blood with the Yue people.
By the way, I'm also curious to know who are my 'tongxiang'(Sei Yap people) in CHF.
Does your family speak Taishan, or Chiu Chao, or Hakka, or Hokien, or Cantonese? Chiu Chao and many Hakka places were formerly parts of Fujian. Is Taishan dialect similar to Chiu Chao dialect? Which Yue do you mean Viet Yue 越 or Cantonese Yue 粵?
Edited by foldup_gryphon, 02 September 2005 - 11:54 AM.
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Lin Duanwen
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Posted 02 September 2005 - 12:07 PM
Does your family speak Taishan, or Chiu Chao, or Hakka, or Hokien, or Cantonese? Chiu Chao and many Hakka places were formerly parts of Fujian. Is Taishan dialect similar to Chiu Chao dialect? Which Yue do you mean Viet Yue 越 or Cantonese Yue 粵?
My family speaks Heshan dialect(Cantonese-Sei Yap language) but I can also speak Teochew(Chaozhou/Chiu Chao). Heshan dialect is totally different from Chiu Chao dialect(except for the word chicken, its quite same). It is more like Cantonese dialect.
The Yue I meant is Nan Yue, not Cantonese Yue.
Flying Phoenix 飛鸞隱士
#12
BlueNote
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Posted 02 September 2005 - 07:03 PM
Any info about Heshan? My grandfather came from Guangdong Province, Heshan County, Zhishan Town, Pingsha Villiage.
My 1st ancestor of Heshan, Lin Songqi, came from Fujian to settle in Heshan during the Song Dynasty. So I'm not sure whether we have mixed blood with the Yue people.
By the way, I'm also curious to know who are my 'tongxiang'(Sei Yap people) in CHF.
Wow..... Lin Duanwen we may be cousins!
My family is also from Heshan county. My last name is 文. The older generation of my family always said we descended from the famous Song General 文 天祥. Unfortunately I have been unable to get any proof.
Since 文 is a relatively rare Chinese surname....i'm sure every Chinese with that last name claims this !
My family basically speaks Cantonese, my mom can also speak Toishan dialect as she is from Kaiping (Hoiping). Yes, Heshan has their own local dialect, but to me it's not similar to Cantonese, at least I didnt' understand it when I visited Heshan.
文 天祥 may have been Hakka by the way.
The 文 family is considered one of the 5 big original founding families of Hong Kong. There is a 文 village in the Yuen Long area of HK with a 文 天祥 memorial park and museum.
The Pic in my avatar was taken there.
Can anybody help me get more info on 文 天祥 ? I can't really read much Chinese unfortunately.
Edited by BlueNote, 02 September 2005 - 07:35 PM.
If memory can be packaged, I hope this one will never expire. If a date must be added, let it be 10,000 years...!
: Wong Kar Wai
: Wong Kar Wai
#13
kaixin
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Posted 03 September 2005 - 12:03 AM
I thought Tiu Chow was a Fukienese dialect? Toisanese is more closer to Cantonese. IMO it is a Cantonese dialect, but with different pronunciations, that's it.
Chiu (Zhao) is a very common surname among the Toisan people.
It is wrong that they killed 2 boys in that war with the bloody Mongols. They were just children. That is why I will never stand for others who claim that Mongols and Manchus did good to our history.
Chiu (Zhao) is a very common surname among the Toisan people.
It is wrong that they killed 2 boys in that war with the bloody Mongols. They were just children. That is why I will never stand for others who claim that Mongols and Manchus did good to our history.
#14
kaixin
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Posted 06 September 2005 - 12:31 AM
Seeing how the Song court made their last stand and died thinking it was the end for China, makes me as a Cantonese, a inheritor of this great Tang/Song tradition want to continue this honorable tradition of being a true and proud Chinese. May their spirits rest in peace. We have survived and fought on strong.
#15
wuTao
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General Chinese history, Asian history
Posted 06 September 2005 - 03:05 AM
So, there you have it. This is our history of the Toisan and Cantonese origins. We have native Yue as well as Tang/Song aristocrats-soldiers in our blood.
Our ancestors battled Kublai Khan until the death do us part. The last Song emperor is buried in our ancestors land. I know his spirit continues to bless Guangdong and Cantonese people.
Hmm... where does it say in here that the Cantonese are the descendants of "Tang/Song aristocrats-soldiers"? How did you come to this conclusion? In addition, this website seems to be a personal website whose historical veracity seems very questionable.
For someone who claims to only seek the truth and despise chauvinism, you sure do seem to fabricate much about the ancestry of the Cantonese. It seems more like a quest to convince and claim for your self a supposed glorious ancestry...
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