66 replies to this topic

[Toisanman]

I just found your commentary from a random search of Toisan China, where my parents hail from. I really enjoyed reading your notes and I appreciate the information on my Toisan heritage. I've lived in Los Angeles most of my life, during a time when you would still hear Toisanese spoken in Chinese restaurants. Now, if I want to hear Toisannese, I have to go to San Francisco or New York. Still, whenever I hear others speak it, I feel a little warm inside, since I speak almost only English now. My brother now speaks more Mandarin now, as his wife is from Taiwan, and I will be speaking more Cantonese as my fiance is from Hong Kong. Still, I am proud of my Toisan roots and one day, one day, I'll get a chance to see the village where my heritage all started. Thanks again for the info!

[Batcat]

Records of the Grand Historian: Han Dynasty I, Revised Edition, Sima Qian, Translated by Burton Watson, Chapter Li Yiji and Lu Jia, Page 225, A Renditions – Columbia University Press Book, Hong Kong New York, 1961.

This is an update in Zhao Tuo’s place of origin. He home town is in the Zhao state as shown in the above historical documentation. However Chiu Chao people remain a southern ethnicity and therefore could not have been the people whom Zhao Tuo led down from the northern state of Zhao to settle in Guangdong as exposited by a Vietnamese poster of this forum. One possible explanation could be though Zhao Tuo is from the Zhao state, he could have led a number of different groups of people from various states. One group could well be as I have theorized from the Sung state.

I hear that there is a play about him called 'King of Nan Yue' that will start soon in Guangzhou. I wonder what it will be like?

[lifezard]

a bit a about the Toisan dialect. like someone bfore had said , the dialect is in a way accented Cantonese. .. To hear Toisanese, I would suggest watching Karl Mak(the baldy) in the Aces Go Places series...

One feature of Toisanese is the t' >h phenomenon...

In Toisanese, Toisan will be called Hoi San

[Batcat]

a bit a about the Toisan dialect. like someone bfore had said , the dialect is in a way accented Cantonese. .. To hear Toisanese, I would suggest watching Karl Mak(the baldy) in the Aces Go Places series...

One feature of Toisanese is the t' >h phenomenon...

In Toisanese, Toisan will be called Hoi San

It's more complicated than that since there are words in Toisanese that sounds quite different from any other forms of Cantonese.

Edited by Batcat, 23 May 2006 - 10:48 PM.

[ezquire]

It's more complicated than that since there are words in Toisanese that sounds quite different from any other forms of Cantonese.

Does the relation between Toishanese and Cantonese similar to the relation between Teochew and Hokkian?

[lifezard]

Does the relation between Toishanese and Cantonese similar to the relation between Teochew and Hokkian?

not the close kind, Toisan is considered Yue dialect, while Teochew and Hokkien are Min dialects

[qrasy]

Does the relation between Toishanese and Cantonese similar to the relation between Teochew and Hokkian?

Supposedly yes.

not the close kind, Toisan is considered Yue dialect, while Teochew and Hokkien are Min dialects

That means that you actually agree. Ezquire did not ask about whether those 4 are dialects of Yue, but rather about whether Toshanese to Cantonese is as close as Teochew to Hokkien.

[lifezard]

Supposedly yes.

That means that you actually agree. Ezquire did not ask about whether those 4 are dialects of Yue, but rather about whether Toshanese to Cantonese is as close as Teochew to Hokkien.

Noted

[Inuyasha-sama]

IMO Taishanese sounds very similar to Hakka.

[Andy Lau]

Sze Yap which is a region located in the western section of the Booming Pearl River Delta(Guangdong province), consists of the city of Taishan(Toisan), Kaiping(Hoiping), Xinhui(Sunwui), and Enping(Yanping) and speaks the Cantonese dialect of Sze Yap Wah. Does anyone know whether the Chinese who live in this region settled(migrated from the North) abit later than the other Cantonese dialect groups(ie Guangzhou and Zhongshan)?
The reason why i think that...is because i find that there are words(vocabulary) that are similar to hakka(much later migrants - 1600) and Mandarin. For example the counting is very similar to Hakka and not cantonese: Yit, Ngee, Thlam, Thlee, Ng, Look, Tit, Bat, Giu, Sip (NB: only thlam and thlee are different), person = Ngin, Japan = Ngit Bon, How are you = Ni Ho Ma, to have = Yiew(in contrast to Canto Yau), last name Chen = Chin, yes = Hai(exception..cuz canto uses it too..lol), etc Where in mandarin i found similar: you = ni, road = lou, cross the street = goh ma lou, last name "Liu" and "Li" = Liew and Lee, etc..

[Lin Duanwen]

New title but same topic, please refer to

http://www.chinahist...p...c=6904&st=0

[wlee15]

Merged Topics

[Andy Lau]

i wonder how Jiangmen dialect sounds like? Is Jiangmen city part of Sze Yap(SiYi) group of dialects or since recently Heshan was included it's now called Ng Yap(WuYi)?

Edited by Andy Lau, 07 March 2007 - 10:18 PM.

[Lin Duanwen]

i wonder how Jiangmen dialect sounds like? Is Jiangmen city part of Sze Yap(SiYi) group of dialects or since recently Heshan was included it's now called Ng Yap(WuYi)?

Jiangmen is a prefecture-level city ("Capital" of Sze Yap). Heshan and Xinhui were actually known as "Xinhui County" but later separated into 2 counties. I've not heard of people saying "Ng Yap".

Sze Yap 4 counties = Taishan, Enping, Kaiping and Xinhui (consist of Xinhui and Heshan).

[Andy Lau]

my grandparents told me about Ng Yap and i found a source about it: http://zh.wikipedia....org/wiki/五邑