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#61 mongobanjum

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Posted 03 February 2009 - 02:40 AM

I'd have to disagree with Gyeongsang dialect and Japanese language relation. They are two totally different languages, sure it may sound similar, but they're still different. The Japanese language was more influenced by the extinct Korean peninsula languages, more specifically the one connected with Goguryeo. There's no doubt there have been influences from the Ryukyuans and Ainu as well.

I think most Japanese researchers realize a large proportion of Japanese have their origins at the Korean peninsula. The relative age of haplogroup O2b1a is younger than haplogroup O2b* and O2b1*. But I also don't support those ultra-nationalists in Korea saying Japanese are basically the product of Koreans inter-marrying with the natives. Koreans have also been largely influenced by Japanese culture. Nor do I support those Japanese right-wingers saying that they have absolutely no relations with Koreans.

Edited by mongobanjum, 03 February 2009 - 03:01 AM.


#62 SNK_1408

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Posted 03 February 2009 - 07:21 PM

I'd have to disagree with Gyeongsang dialect and Japanese language relation. They are two totally different languages, sure it may sound similar, but they're still different. The Japanese language was more influenced by the extinct Korean peninsula languages, more specifically the one connected with Goguryeo. There's no doubt there have been influences from the Ryukyuans and Ainu as well.

I think most Japanese researchers realize a large proportion of Japanese have their origins at the Korean peninsula. The relative age of haplogroup O2b1a is younger than haplogroup O2b* and O2b1*. But I also don't support those ultra-nationalists in Korea saying Japanese are basically the product of Koreans inter-marrying with the natives. Koreans have also been largely influenced by Japanese culture. Nor do I support those Japanese right-wingers saying that they have absolutely no relations with Koreans.


Can you speak Gyeongsang saturi? if you don't then you can't argue with Gyeonsang saturi, btw it's saturi not dialect.
Modern Korean language don't have dialects like China or India, but regions kept their own saturi or slang & accents.

Gyeongsang accent and saturi is most closest to Japonic language in terms of accent & sound, btw way I was referring to sound, dialect & accent are associated with sounds. I wasn't referring to writing.
Of course modern Korean language is completely different from modern Japanese.

The main reason why a lot of people don't link Gyeongsang saturi & accent to Japanese because both Koreans and Japanese nationalists don't want to associate each other with deep connection. Before Silla and Baekje, there were three tribes called Samhan, each Samhan had different language & customs. One of these extinct tribe were closely linked with Japonic culture & language and archaeological evidence rove this.

Also, Silla's house that still survived today is most closest to ancient Japanese house, houses in Goguryeo and Baekje were very different from Japanese. More over, some of Silla's expats and royals came from Japan as well. This clearly show they were most closely linked people.

I disagreed with you in terms of Japanese language connection with Goguryeo language.
Japanese shared no cultural and genetic relationship with Tungusic-Koreans in the North of Korean peninsula.
The only possible explanation is Baekje, which also came from Goguryeo line and influenced Japan. Majority of original founder & settlers of Baekje was royal blood of Goguryeo and Buyeo people.

Ryukuans and Ainu people don't share any relations, it's only when they were under Hondo Japanese they have became contact. Both Ryukuans and Ainu didn't used to speak the modern Japanese language they had their own languages before the annexation. If Korea still part of Japan today, modern day Koreans certainly would lost their language too.

Even today, the largest port connection from Korea to Japan is located at Gyeongsang province. Also, Gyeongsang is most visited place for Japanese travelers to Korea. The main reason is the sea foods and climate is most closest to Japan.

Please don't ignore the geographical location of Gyeongsang regions and Japan.
역사를 보면 결국 힘있는 자가 힘없는 자를 정복하고 약탈하는 것입니다.
역사를 왜곡하는 민족은 반드시 멸망한다.
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#63 mongobanjum

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Posted 05 February 2009 - 08:36 PM

Well I do agree that Gyeongsang-do saturi does sound Japanese and geographic location probably has a lot to do with it (as well as ancient Silla and Wa having many interactions).

And the Goguryeo-Japanese relationship probably does have more to do with the Baekje-Japanese relationship. Baekje's royals were from Goguryeo, while the others were Samhan natives (most likely descendants of proto-Koreans).

#64 SNK_1408

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 01:43 AM

Many people mistake Korea is some kind of big country, but is not. The people that used to lived on Southern Manchuria to Korean peninsula were basically belonged to same group of people hence the language and culture followed same factors & elements. That's same for Southern Japan.

Proto-Koreans, people of Samhan, Gojoseon and three Kingdoms of Korea all belongs to same group of people, hence the languages are similar or shared same root. This is proved with all these ancient stone tombs and burial sites, all shared same or similar design.

It's only recently after the national boarders and free-migrations were stopped people started isolating themselves from others.
역사를 보면 결국 힘있는 자가 힘없는 자를 정복하고 약탈하는 것입니다.
역사를 왜곡하는 민족은 반드시 멸망한다.
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#65 sonnori

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Posted 09 September 2009 - 11:31 PM

I was just trying to do as the Korean would do. I thought it is the norm for Korean males to use the ㅂ니다 form of speech among strangers? Please correct me if I am wrong.

By the way if you happen to be a Korean, please teach me Korean.



Sorry for my late reply, I am very afraid if my explanation can answer for your question ,its very difficult to explain in english,but let me try

ㅂ니다. is one kind of '종결어미-終結語尾 = gramatical ending words'-when you decide /end your sentence you can add this on ,however not for the sentence of exclamatory/interrogative
it sounds polite and you can use it in almost every kind of plain sentences (if it doesn't express the future tense) .

you can privatened- message me , I can help your Korean language although my english is not enough.

At least I can show you how standard Korean written and spoken. :)

#66 WangGeon

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Posted 18 September 2009 - 12:58 PM

Sentence verb ending choice is also highly contextual. Use of ㅂ니다 is typically seen as the so-called "deferential form," but it also can be used to be sarcastic, especially when two people with a previously close relationship are arguing. While it is usually a polite form, it can also be a means to distance people, which in itself (and depending on gradations of a person's relationsihp) can be even more rude. Similarly, using "intimate style" 어/아 or "plain style" ㄴ다 can be used to express the closeness of the speakers' relationship to the listener. Again, that is purely contextual.

The TA of my intensive course noted that ㅂ니다 is preferred as being somewhat "masculine" among Gyeongsang-do people.

[Speaking of dialect, it's kind of unfortunate that my Korean keyboard doesn't have the letters used in Jeju dialect...]

Edited by WangGeon, 18 September 2009 - 01:01 PM.


#67 sg_han

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Posted 19 September 2009 - 09:53 AM

i notice that the 제주 사투리 doesnt have 요 and ㅂ니다 ...is tt considdered rude? what is the polite form in the jedu speech?
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#68 WangGeon

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Posted 19 September 2009 - 12:14 PM

i notice that the 제주 사투리 doesnt have 요 and ㅂ니다 ...is tt considdered rude? what is the polite form in the jedu speech?


제주 사투리 has a harsher sound and appears to utilize less polite-style speech than mainland Korean dialects. From my experience (although I don't know if it's always true), common everyday speech typically appears to follow more plain-form patterns. There is a "polite form" in Jejumal, however - it comes out as -시과, -수다, -허염수다, -ㅁ수다, etc. "안녕하십니까" becomes "안녕핫시과", for example. There might be more [not sure if 마심 is considered "polite speech"], but in spoken Jejumal, I often hear more plain-style speech.

Edited by WangGeon, 19 September 2009 - 12:16 PM.


#69 sg_han

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Posted 23 September 2009 - 08:08 AM

제주 사투리 has a harsher sound and appears to utilize less polite-style speech than mainland Korean dialects. From my experience (although I don't know if it's always true), common everyday speech typically appears to follow more plain-form patterns. There is a "polite form" in Jejumal, however - it comes out as -시과, -수다, -허염수다, -ㅁ수다, etc. "안녕하십니까" becomes "안녕핫시과", for example. There might be more [not sure if 마심 is considered "polite speech"], but in spoken Jejumal, I often hear more plain-style speech.


Are you korean?

yES I read what you wrote from wikipedia .
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#70 WangGeon

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Posted 25 September 2009 - 12:17 PM

Are you korean?

yES I read what you wrote from wikipedia .


I'm not Korean, but I've lived in Korea (specifically rural Gyeongsang and rural Jeju) so I am quite aware of the dialect differences. I learned Jeju dialect from the locals, but I'm only really familiar with the dialect of northwestern Jeju - the 애월읍 and 한림읍 areas. Northeastern Jeju (구좌읍 and 성산읍 areas) is slightly different due to its comparatively harsher environment. Although most people speak standard Korean, dialect is still spoken in Jeju, even among young people; city people (where dialect supposedly is fizzling out) still go back and forth between dialect and standard while speaking standard with very particular regional accents and pronounciations. I don't know why, but I find Jeju dialect easier while Gyeongsang dialect is too difficult for me to understand.

Regarding Wikipedia, I've never bothered writing in it, but I think I may know who the person who wrote the article is.

#71 SNK_1408

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Posted 17 November 2009 - 12:59 AM

Anyone knows much about native Korean words?

i.e. Sagari = town, gachigushi = couple, Meul = village

It would be interesting to hear how Korean sentence will sound with native words.
역사를 보면 결국 힘있는 자가 힘없는 자를 정복하고 약탈하는 것입니다.
역사를 왜곡하는 민족은 반드시 멸망한다.
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#72 sg_han

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Posted 18 November 2009 - 08:49 AM

Anyone knows much about native Korean words?

i.e. Sagari = town, gachigushi = couple, Meul = village

It would be interesting to hear how Korean sentence will sound with native words.


서울에 있는 어느 마을의 사람들이 날마다 논밭에서 민들레를 캐다

Edited by sg_han, 18 November 2009 - 08:51 AM.

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#73 WangGeon

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Posted 19 November 2009 - 01:36 AM

Anyone knows much about native Korean words?

i.e. Sagari = town, gachigushi = couple, Meul = village

It would be interesting to hear how Korean sentence will sound with native words.


Or another simple example:
대 = 한 ; 전 = 밧

The ancient Silla title of "Maripgan" also is related to the word 한, meaning "great".

Hence: 대전 광역시 = 한밧 (as it was previously known)

In some cases, the Sinitic and native words are combined such as "귤밧."

Native words tend to be used more in regular speech; basically, a lot of the colloquialisms you may hear in spoken Korean are derived in native words. In the more professional environment, there's a preference for saying Sinitic-derived words.

I'm a bit surprised, however, that there aren't many Koreans that use native-derived names. The only one I've heard of is "Haneul."

#74 SNK_1408

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Posted 19 November 2009 - 07:54 PM

Or another simple example:
대 = 한 ; 전 = 밧

The ancient Silla title of "Maripgan" also is related to the word 한, meaning "great".

Hence: 대전 광역시 = 한밧 (as it was previously known)

In some cases, the Sinitic and native words are combined such as "귤밧."

Native words tend to be used more in regular speech; basically, a lot of the colloquialisms you may hear in spoken Korean are derived in native words. In the more professional environment, there's a preference for saying Sinitic-derived words.

I'm a bit surprised, however, that there aren't many Koreans that use native-derived names. The only one I've heard of is "Haneul."


Thx.

With regards to Korean names, I think to register names in Korea they needed Hanja name, but these born late 1980s seem to have alot of Korean names. Korean government only allowed to register with non-Hanja names after mid 1980s.
역사를 보면 결국 힘있는 자가 힘없는 자를 정복하고 약탈하는 것입니다.
역사를 왜곡하는 민족은 반드시 멸망한다.
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#75 sg_han

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 02:36 AM

Wouldnt there be some formof confusion if names are, as you mentioned, increasing derived from native korean?
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