Rykard here. My other account reached 30 post, so I have to create new account. Anyway, when I said I doubt your theory, I was talking about the altaic one. Not australian aborigines. I just don't think Korean/Altaic and preQin dongyi are the same person. Or are you referring to donyi during post Qin? Maybe I miss out something or misunderstood you.
The article
http://www.nytimes.c...aborigines.html is useful here to explain the case of the origin of the Mongoloid. As cited by the article, the Caucasoid and Mongoloid split about 30,000 years ago. This will serve as a good reference point for us to understand the origin of the Altaic people.
My numerous posts on the Huns and Turks had contained one claim: After the Caucasoid and Mongoloid split about 30,000 years ago, they were not to meet again till about 300-500 BC, somewhere near the Black Water River and the Black Water Lake, should the Yuezhi had have ever made the trip out of the Altaic mountain pass (shan kou). My assertion was based on my reading of the ancient Chinese classics, as well as the DNA analysis of the Central Asians to be some product of admixture, not an intermediary form of human evolution. On top of that, it would be my examination of the geography that convinced me that the Eurasian natural barriers were too much an obstacle to overcome. Examples I gave would be the so-called DA-ZI to the north or the grand desert that separated the habitable areas of Mo-bei and Mo-nan, or south of the desert and north of the desert, and the Takla Desert to the west, with no pass through between the Lop Nur and China's Western Corridor till well after the Huns' campaigns against the Yuezhi. I also used the Amerindian way of life to explain how ancient Huns and the ancient Wusun, as well as the later Khitans, had adapted to the migratory mode of life, like setting up summer camp and winter camp etc. Combining this migratory practice with the historical records about the damages of storms in Outer Mongolia and Siberia, you had a clear picture that the ancient homos could not have made an all-year-around settlement on the plains. The refugee for winter times would be in the forests at the mountains, such as the Greater Xing'an Ridge that separated Manchuria from Mongolia. I mentioned the Tuoba cavern, Gaxiandong, at the Xing'an Ridge, as a perfect example of human survival. The path the Tuobas took would be travelling west from the mountain, stopping in Outer Mongolia, and then moving south to China's Inner Mongolia. The myth said that they followed the path that was led by a yellow [?] oxen. The Tuobas said they were descendants of one of the sons of the Yellow Lord, by the way.
Just some repetition of what the ancient Chinese classics said. Mountain and Sea Legends strangely claimed that the Yellow Lord, Huangdi, was from the Bei-Di or northern barbarian. (Note the four direction designations came to formation during the warring states of Zhou Dynasty. And the book Mountain and Sea Legends was a re-compiling by someone in Han Dynasty, much later in history.)
This could mean really something like this. The Sino-Tibetans, at the start of the Yellow River, split two ways for an eastward move, with the Sinitic going the north of the Yellow River, while the Qiangic or Tibetans going between the Yellow River and the Yangtze River. Somewhere in today's Hebei, they converged with each other, as well as encountered the two other groups of people: 1) The ancestors of the Altaic people in Manchuria and 2) The ancestors of the "YI" people on the eastern Chinese coast. The Sinitic and Tibetan groups, of course, left behind their people along the trajectory as well as at the origin of the Yellow River. Why I am making a case here? I want to remind people that the Yellow Lord was commented to be from BEI DI and the Yellow Lord had his monument in the ARCH MOUNTAIN, which is in today's Hebei Province, while the Qiangic Yandi or the Fiery Lord had his monuments pinned down in Hubei or most likely Hunan province. (South of the Yangtze - the river that ran through the Hunan and Hubei provinces, you had the marshland and forests, and the Southern Ridge, which was impossible to penetrate at the ancient times.)
Following the original south-north move of the Sino-Tobetans would be what I termed the HUNDRED PU people, as well as some detachment which moved down the Yangtze to reach the Yangtze mouth where the Liangzu Culture was. For the movement along the coast, I would continue the previous layout, namely, there would be the migration by ancestors of the AmeriIndians, followed by the ancestors of the Altaics, the "YI" people, and the future Taiwan aboriginals.
Other than the BEI-DI and ARCH MOUNTAIN, I don't see much archaic records that could say anything better than what I said here. Following the Yellow Lord, you have the wars between the Yellow Lord and the Chi-you, and the war between the Yellow Lord and the Fiery Lord. What was missing in this time period was about the "YI", with CHinese classics extensively talking about the phoenix YI tribe that descended from the TAIHAO-SHI, who appeared more senior than the late-comer Yellow Lord or the Fiery Lord. Chi-you was defeated somewhere in today's Hebei Province, which was next to the Shandong Peninsula, the land of the phoenix tribe as well as the ancient capitals of most of the Chinese lords. The riddle here could be about the CHI-YOU tribe and the Phoenix YI tribe. Were they the same people or different? The locality and timing pointed them to be of the same. Then the descendants of the Yellow Lord, like Yao, Shun and Yu, continued to move east, spreading teachings to the NINE YI tribes, by which time you had as many as nine different names, with more than half containing the designations of "color" and "bird [i.e., phoenix]", including the Black Phoenix Tribe which was the future ancestor of the Shang Dynasty.
I will have to cut short here before reaching any conclusion. What I want to add here would be Confucius' writing about the "Stone Arrows" which Confucius claimed to be the tributes from the Sushen Tribe bordering the Japan Sea. The coincidence was that the Amerindians had a tradition of using the stone arrows for hunting, and it continued till the British came in the last hundreds of years. My point here was that the ancient Chinese corroborated the fact that there were traffic and communications between America and Asia. The stone arrow story would be about the time Zhou Dynasty was founded. It was said that Zhou Dynasty, after unifying China, began to pave the roads to the four directions, and hence the Sushen Tribe in Manchuria came to pay tributes, including the stone arrows. Before this road construction endeavor (which was similar to Qin Emperor Shihuangdi's project to biuld the ZHI-DAO or straight highways), you had the story of GUZHU, lonely bamboo, where two prices yielded the throne for an escape to China, and GUZHU was a Shang Dynasty vassal. Other than that, there was the story of Shang Prince Ji-zi being sent to ancient Korea, which would mostly like be along the two banks of today's Yalu and Tumen rivers, while the ancient Sushen would be further northeast direction, north of the Tumen River and bordering the Japan Sea.
Today's Koreans claimed that the BAI-DOU-SHAN, i.e., the white snow capped mountain, was the point of origin for their ancestors. Where was this BAI DOU SAN? It was just north of the Yala and Tumen rivers, and it was recently ceded to Korea by Mao as a gift to Kim Il Sung. Nowhere was it said, as the Korean nationalists claimed, that their origin was in Siberia. Checking the rivers and mountains in Manchuria, you would see where the Tuoba lived, where the Genghis Khan Shiwei Mengwu lived, and so on. I can't find a spot in Outer Mongolia where the ancient people could have made originated. The pattern of movements for those people were east to west. That's how I concluded that the Altaic language originated in Manchuria. Will stop here today.
