40 replies to this topic

[Ryz05]

This forum is more than just about Chinese history, it's also about Chinese culture, society, and present news. The Xiucai exam not only discourages people from becoming members, but also does not fully reflect what this forum is about. By removing it, you will be encouraging more people to join. Also, the forum can be improved by enforcing forum laws by giving warnings to anybody who's trolling, advertising, or doing other desruptive behaviors. Persistance in this area will result in a ban. This will only require some minimal effort on the part of the moderators. I know the administrators have spent a lot of time and effort on the exam's creation, but I feel the forum will be better without it.

[Yun]

Hi Ryz05,

I think we've addressed all the issues you raised when the exam was first introduced. I will let other moderators and members who have taken the exam respond to you if they wish, since my views on the matter are already well known.

Note that replies to this thread, like any other in the Imperial Exam forum, will be under mod preview. This serves two purposes: to prevent leaking of answers, and to help moderators keep debates over the exam from getting too heated.

Yun

[snowybeagle]

This forum is more than just about Chinese history, it's also about Chinese culture, society, and present news.

I do not see it that way.

The primary focus of CHF is history of China.
Studies in history would eventually overlap into discussion on culture and society, but the discussion on present state of China is only there out of expediency.

[urofpersia]

This forum is more than just about Chinese history, it's also about Chinese culture, society, and present news.

For me, the primary focus of CHF is history, the rest are secondary. It is why I am here. I agree that the rest of the topics are interesting in and of itself, just mention current affairs and you will always have a dozen posts in. In fact precisely because those topics are more popular and have wider acceptance, they do should not have equal standing here, or the history part will get swarmed as past experiences show.

To be very honest, there are many many sites focusing on the other aspects, and I think they serve that purpose well and I encourage others to go there. CHF is special to me precisely because it focuses on history with a wide range of viewpoints that is rare in Chinese language based Chinese history forums (of which there are many)

[Ryz05]

I do not see it that way.

The primary focus of CHF is history of China.
Studies in history would eventually overlap into discussion on culture and society, but the discussion on present state of China is only there out of expediency.

Reality shows discussions on culture and society are equal, if not more popular than discussions on history. If this forum removes the exam, then more people will sign up and post. There are usually more than 100 people viewing the forum, but often only 10 or less members post. If the fear is over disruptive posters, then moderators should do more to block and ban those members, instead of creating an exam that affects everyone. Removing the exam will make the forum more popular.

[Ryz05]

Hi Ryz05,

I think we've addressed all the issues you raised when the exam was first introduced. I will let other moderators and members who have taken the exam respond to you if they wish, since my views on the matter are already well known.

Note that replies to this thread, like any other in the Imperial Exam forum, will be under mod preview. This serves two purposes: to prevent leaking of answers, and to help moderators keep debates over the exam from getting too heated.

Yun

There are often more than a hundred people viewing the forum, but only 10 or less actually log in and post. This shows the exam is affecting the forum's popularity. If the mods still disagree with the suggestions, then the best way is a referendum where all members, exam candidates, and non-members can vote.

[Yun]

There are often more than a hundred people viewing the forum, but only 10 or less actually log in and post.

You've been misled by the search engines. Most of the hundred or more 'guests' at such times are actually spider bots for search engines like Google, MSN, and Yahoo.

If the mods still disagree with the suggestions, then the best way is a referendum where all members, exam candidates, and non-members can vote.

We did have a poll about one or two weeks after the exam was introduced. The result was that about 2/3 of respondents favored the exam, while 1/3 did not. Maybe you did not come to CHF during that time? Your past posts suggest you were not active in November-December 2006, when we started the exam.

[snowybeagle]

Reality shows discussions on culture and society are equal, if not more popular than discussions on history. If this forum removes the exam, then more people will sign up and post.

Discussions are dynamic in nature - and it helps to understand history better in exploring relevant cultures and societies to particular eras. What started out as threads on history can veer into culture and society, and vice versa.

But the objective of CHF is still to be an English-language based forum for discussing history of China.

There are many different things that can be done to get more people to sign up and post.

The issue is what would be their motivation in signing up and and what kind of posting will they be making.

CHF has been a place for discussing history of China from day one of its existence.

I prefer to have more people who want to discuss history of China to sign up and post rather than people who are more focussed on Chinese culture or Chinese society. There are already forums dedicated to Chinese culture and Chinese societies respectively.

I am ambivalent about the mandatory nature of the exam, but not about the primary purpose of CHF.

[Wujiang]

If the mods still disagree with the suggestions, then the best way is a referendum where all members, exam candidates, and non-members can vote.

Yun just seem too kind to put it in these words. But I am not.

CHF is not a democracy. In fact, it isn't even a dictatorship. It is the property of GZ. GZ pays for it and we are just enjoying the results of the expenses that he is kindly willing to give. This means he has every right to do with it however he wants. If he is uncertain about something, he might want throw it out onto the floor and ask for the opinions of members. That is his grace and kindness but by no means an obligation on any level. In fact, if he wants to toss a coin or seek an omen from the gods on a matter concerning CHF, it is not a our place to stop him. He doesn't do that because he is a good man. The past years have shown that GZ is a kind and fair owner of CHF and has constantly makes the hard choices that makes CHF grows. Keeping a balance between what is needed and what people wants.

Fact is, at the end of the day we are nothing but recipients of hard work and expenses that GZ has put into CHF. He already sought and listened opinions about the exam system and have conluded that it is needed. He decision was made and that was final. Without an invitation to vote, we have absolutely no right to even suggest one.

[Ryz05]

The primary goal is to raise the forum's popularity. I'm not to debate what the forum focuses on or is about, so you can say all you want about it being focused on history with everything secondary, the fact is all the others are just as popular discussion topics. No one is here to just talk about history and nothing else, as reflected in the exam.

Xiucai exam was created to stamp out those disruptive posters, which can best be done by mods giving warning bans and permanent bans. The exam is too much of a hassle and discourages many new members from continued posting. If GZ wants to keep the exam, then that's fine, as this is his forum. Then in that case, anyone else's opinion doesn't matter.

[wingchuntaiji]

This forum is more than just about Chinese history, it's also about Chinese culture, society, and present news. The Xiucai exam not only discourages people from becoming members, but also does not fully reflect what this forum is about. By removing it, you will be encouraging more people to join. Also, the forum can be improved by enforcing forum laws by giving warnings to anybody who's trolling, advertising, or doing other desruptive behaviors. Persistance in this area will result in a ban. This will only require some minimal effort on the part of the moderators. I know the administrators have spent a lot of time and effort on the exam's creation, but I feel the forum will be better without it.

I do not agree! Removing the Xiucai Exam no doubt will make this forum a more popular forum where we can attract a lot more common people who only come and go for fun. The seriousness of learning and improving and the value will be missing. The Xiu-Cai Exam provides challenges, and it leads every member to strive to enrich oneself with more knowledge. Each member can feel one's own improvement. I had participated in many forum, and this forum is the first one I encountered with exam and I can see the quality of the members. I actually enjoyed learning new things while I took the exam. This is in fact one of the best forums in the world with success. Lowering the standards, and making it too easy will seriously cut down the quality of this forum and the value of the members. It may eventually lead to some knowledgeable senior members leaving this forum.

Think of it this way! Think of this forum as a successful Five-star hotel with a lot of high class customers who enjoy the cleaniness and the quality. They would love to pay the premium room rate. But, suddenly, this hotel starts filling with low social class people who use vulgar language, spit on the floor, and talk loud. The quality of the hotel will be affected, and the regular high-class customers will stop patronizing this hotel. A scholar with high-virtue usually do not want to get mixed up with the vulgar language speaking low-level people.

This is the place that anyone can work hard to become a better person who is more knowlegeable than an average person. The exam provides a goal for the newby to achieve. If we need more members, we can recruit new members through a collective effort such as networking. We actually should target our potential members and set the standard criteria of who we want to recruit. We actually have a choice to choose potentially good quality members. Since we have a limitation in managing the site, we can only handle so many members, then we want all of them good quality members.

Edited by wingchuntaiji, 14 February 2007 - 04:41 AM.

[Ryz05]

The Xiucai exam can be kept to test people on their history knowledge, and also allow individuals to have a "Entry scholar" badge they can boast about, but everyone should be allowed to unlimited posts.

[Ludahai]

At first I was skeptical about the exam, but on further reflection, I agree with it. It isn't that hard to find more than enough answers to pass it anyhow. It simply takes a minimun of effort, something that would be necessary for anyone to make a positive contribution in the first place.

Now, I would like to see other exams up to jinshi. But, please include Traditional Characters as well as Simplified.

[General_Zhaoyun]

The primary goal is to raise the forum's popularity. I'm not to debate what the forum focuses on or is about, so you can say all you want about it being focused on history with everything secondary, the fact is all the others are just as popular discussion topics. No one is here to just talk about history and nothing else, as reflected in the exam.

Xiucai exam was created to stamp out those disruptive posters, which can best be done by mods giving warning bans and permanent bans. The exam is too much of a hassle and discourages many new members from continued posting. If GZ wants to keep the exam, then that's fine, as this is his forum. Then in that case, anyone else's opinion doesn't matter.

Ryz05,

I can understand your concern. Removing the exam will certainly make CHF 'more popular' inviting more people to join and post, which will in turn power up the traffic of CHF. Indeed, the exam has made CHF's traffic dropped slightly as a result.

However, we have already experienced a high traffic in the past of allowing all kinds of people to join. We have already been banning lots of people, yet troublemakers continue to come and disrupt the peace in the forum.
The best way to stop troublemakers/disruption in the forum is deterence and prevention (i.e. you deter troublemakers from even making a post). You're not going to wait till troublemakers come and disrupt then you do something.

The very fact is that if you allow someone (who do not have a purpose of coming to CHF to learn chinese history and culture) to join CHF, it will degrade the quality of posting. For instance, a post about han-chinese became more of a 'nationalistic talk' instead of 'history talk'.

I believe all members should have a basic knowledge of chinese history in order to better participate in CHF.

Joining CHF is free of charge. Our pre-requisite is only that one must take the Xiucai exam.

[Raven]

Based on experiences on other forums, banning members is rarely any kind of deterrant (as you have to try pretty hard to be banned, and it usually means you dont care if you are) and also, its not even that hard to get around. If i got banned right now (please dont ban me ._.) then I would simply re-register on a different computer with a different IP address and continue to wreak havoc (I havent wrought any havoc ._.!)

Once someone has been warned a few times, they get less scared of it and generally stop caring about any punshiments they might receive.. At least with the entry exam, as has been said, its there as a deterrant and keeps people from using this as a more social forum. I joined cos it looked like a good place to discuss things with people who know what they're talking about, not to improve my internet social life =/

Anyway, I'm speaking out of experience from when i modded a different IPB forum. No one really seemed to care about warnings..