China History Forum, Chinese History Forum: Qin attacking Zheng - China History Forum, Chinese History Forum

Jump to content

Loading

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Qin attacking Zheng Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   shawn 

  • Grand Marshal (Da Sima/Taiwei 大司马/太尉)
  • Group: Master Scholar (Juren)
  • Posts: 1,218
  • Joined: 11-August 06

  • Gender:Male

  • Location:Singapore

  • Interests:argicultre, trade and business, currency, military, strategies and tactics

  • Main Interest in CHF:
    Any chinese-related stuff

  • Specialisation / Expertise:
    none

Posted 13 March 2007 - 06:26 PM

In the winter of 628BC, Ji Zi, an official of the State of Qin stationed in the State of Zheng, sent a secret message to the State of Qin. In his letter Ji Zi said that the ruler of the State of Zheng had entrusted him with the key to the northern gate of Zheng. Duke Mu of Qin immediately sent for an old official, Jianshu, for a discussion.

Duke Mu said: Victory is a sure thing if we send an expedition army to Zheng. This is a rare chance as the ruler of Zheng has just died.

Jianshu said: But our troops will be exhausted after a long march to Zheng...Also, it will be difficult to keep such a military action a secret and Zheng will take precuationary measures. In the case of State of Zheng is prepared, we will gain nothing, which will shake our morale. It is too risky.

Duke Mu: The more advanced in years, the less blod and resolute.

The stubborn Duke Mu of Qin sent generals Meng Ming, Xi Qi and Bai Yi to attack Zheng. The Qin army hurried day and night, but only managed to reach the state of Hua and next spring. Xuan Gao, a merchant of Zheng on his way to the captial of Zhou on business, saw a large army of Qin troops.

Xuan Gao asked another traveller: May I ask where these troops are heading for?

The other traveller said: It is said that they are going to attack the state of Zheng.

Xuan Gao decided to alert Zheng: I will never let them succeed. I must think of a way to save my country.

He went to the Qin encampment and said to the generals: I am a messenger from Zheng. I bring greetings and gifts from my ruler for your troops. Here are 4 sheets of leather and 12 fat cattle. We are willing to offer our services. My ruler says that small as our state is, will do our best to entertain you...If we encamp, we will prepare food for you enough for a day. If you take action, our troops are ready to escort you.

The generals were shocked and thought that Zheng had learnt of their expedition to attack Zheng. Thinking it was to attack Zheng, the Qin army changed direction for an expediton against the State of Hua.

Is this story true?


Also, what happened when State of Hua was attacked by Qin army? What happened to Qin army after they looted Hua?
Having the Spirit of RQ!!!!

It ain't over till it's over - Rocky Balboa

Knowledge without wisdom is useless, wisdom without knowledge is also useless; only with both wisdom and knowlge comes power
0

#2 User is offline   snowybeagle 

  • Sentinel of the Southern Star (鎮南星)
  • Group: CHF Han Lin Scholar
  • Posts: 5,197
  • Joined: 09-June 04

  • Gender:Male

  • Location:Singapore

  • Main Interest in CHF:
    Chinese History

Posted 13 March 2007 - 09:47 PM

Story found in Shiji.

After conquering the State of Hua (滑国), the Qin army on its way home was intercepted by the Jin army at Mt. Yao (崤山).

Meng Ming (孟明) was the son of famous Qin statesman Baili Xi (百里奚). He was brought up by his mother while his father had many years of unsuccessful career in politics. He reunited with his father after the latter became a premier in the State of Qin. Seeing Meng Mingshi was good with weapons, the earl of Qin appointed as Dafu (大夫).

After being hoodwinked by Xuan Gao (弦高), Meng Mingshi, with the other generals Xi Yi (西乞) and Bai Yi (白乙), both sons of Baili Xi's confidante Jian Shu (蹇叔), plundered the State of Hua and was transporting a lot of booty and war-captives back to Qin.

They were ambushed by Jin army, the whole army vanquished and the three generals were captured. The Marquis Xiang of Jin was persuaded by his mother (a Qin native) to release the 3 generals as goodwill to Qin.
0

#3 User is offline   fcharton 

  • Emperor (Huangdi 皇帝)
  • Group: CHF Grand Historian Award
  • Posts: 3,010
  • Joined: 12-September 05

  • Gender:Male

  • Location:Nemours and Paris

  • Interests:Contemporary poetry, these days...

  • Main Interest in CHF:
    Chinese History

  • Specialisation / Expertise:
    PreQin, Classical chinese

Posted 14 March 2007 - 08:32 AM

The original source for this story is the Zuozhuan, in the thirty second and thirty third year of duke Xi. The Shiji (chapter 5) has another version of it, which mostly introduces Bailixi (in the Zuozhuan, only Jian Shu criticises the duke of Qin).

The Zuozhuan version is very close to the one you quote, here is the beginning (I'll try to post a translation of the second part later)

杞 子 自 鄭 使 告 于 秦 曰 . 鄭 人 使 我 掌 其 北 門 之 管 . 若潛 師 以 來 . 國 可 得 也 . 穆 公 訪 諸 蹇 叔 . 蹇 叔 曰 . 勞 師 以 襲 遠 . 非 所 聞也 . 師 勞 力 竭 . 遠 主 備 之 . 無 乃 不 可 乎 . 師 之 所 為 . 鄭 必 知 之 . 勤 而無 所 . 必 有 悖 心 . 且 行 千 里 . 其 誰 不 知 . 公 辭 焉 . 召 孟 明 . 西 乞 . 白乙 . 使 出 師 於 東 門 之 外 . 蹇 叔 哭 之 曰 . 孟 子 . 吾 見 師 之 出 . 而 不 見 其入 也 . 公 使 謂 之 曰 . 爾 何 知 . 中 壽 . 爾 墓 之 木 拱 矣 . 蹇 叔 之 子 與 師 .哭 而 送 之 曰 . 晉 人 禦 師 必 於 殽 . 殽 有 二 陵 焉 . 其 南 陵 . 夏 后 皋 之 墓 也. 其 北 陵 . 文 王 之 所 辟 風 雨 也 . 必 死 是 間 . 余 收 爾 骨 焉 . 秦 師 遂 東 .

Qizi (prince Qi, master Qi ?) sent a messenger from Zheng tell the lord of Qin : « The people of Zhang have entrusted me with the guard of the northern door (of their capital). If your army can come in secret, the capital can be taken. Duke Mu asked Jian Shu and his other counsellors about it, Jian Shu said: "tiring one's army in a long distance ambush, this is unheard of. Such an army will be exhausted, and the far away leader will be ready for it, how could this not be? Beside, the movements of our army will certainly be known in Zheng. To move unheeded, this goes counter to reason. And a travel over a thousand leagues, how could one not know it?" The duke dismissed him, and ordered Meng Ming, Xi Qi and Bai Yi to lead the army out of the country, through the eastern door. Jian Shu said, crying: "Mengzi, I see our army leaving, but I cannot see it coming back." An envoy of the duke said: 'How do you know? You are but an old man, and the trees which will be around your tomb are tall already." As the son of Jian Shu was leaving with the army, he accompanied him, weeping, and said: "The people of Jin will certainly try to attack your army in Yao. There stand two hills. The southern hill is the tomb of emperor Gao of the Xia. The northern hill is the place where king Wen (of Zhou) called upon wind and rain (??), you shall die in between, and I will cllect your bones there." The army of Qin then left for the east.

The whole story expands a few records in the Spring and Autumn annals:

(經三二·二)夏,四月己丑,鄭伯捷卒。In summer, on day Jichou (26) of the fourth month (March 11), the count of Zheng, Jie, died.
(經三三·一)三十有三年春,王二月,秦人入滑。Thirty third year. In spring, in the second month of the royal calendar, the people of Qin invaded Hua.
(經三三·三)夏,四月辛巳,晉人及姜戎敗秦師于殽。In summer, on day Xinsi (18) (February 26) of the fourth month, the people of Jin, together with Jiang Rong, defeated the army of Qin in Yao.

So, I suppose we can say that the expedition and defeat of Qin is attested in the Annals (and that it must have been something important enough to be recorded in the annals of Lu, an eastern state), but that the details can be found in the Zuozhuan (which dates from the turn of the 4th century BC).

For the sake of comparison, here is the corresponding passage from the Shiji. Note how Sima Qian actually retells the story.

鄭人有賣鄭於秦曰:「我主其城門,鄭可襲也。」繆公問蹇叔、百里傒,對曰:「徑數國千里而襲人,希有得利者。且人賣鄭,庸知我國人不有以我情告鄭者乎?不可。」繆公曰:「子不知也,吾已決矣。」遂發兵,使百里傒子孟明視,蹇叔子西乞術及白乙丙將兵。行日,百里傒、蹇叔二人哭之。繆公聞,怒曰:「孤發兵而子沮哭吾軍,何也?」二老曰:「臣非敢沮君軍。軍行,臣子與往;臣老,遲還恐不相見,故哭耳。」二老退,謂其子曰:「汝軍即敗,必於殽阨矣。」三十三年春,秦兵遂東,更晉地,過周北門。周王孫滿曰:「秦師無禮,不敗何待!」兵至滑,鄭販賣賈人弦高,持十二牛將賣之周,見秦兵,恐死虜,因獻其牛,曰:「聞大國將誅鄭,鄭君謹修守御備,使臣以牛十二勞軍士。」秦三將軍相謂曰:「將襲鄭,鄭今已覺之,往無及已。」滅滑。滑,晉之邊邑也。

A man of Zheng sold his country to Qin, saying : « I can control the doors of the capital, and you will be able to make a surprise attack on Zheng. » Duke Mou asked Jian Shu and Bailixi, who replied : « Moving over small roads through several kingdoms and one thousand leagues in order to make a surprise attack has little chance of succeeding. Besides, just like someone has sold Zheng, how can we know no one in our state will warn Zheng of our intentions ? You should not do this. » Duke Mu said : « You do not understand, my decision is already made. » He then proceeded to mobilise his troops, and appointed the son of Bailixi, Meng Mingshi, and those of Jian Shu, Qi Xishu and Bai Yiding, as their leaders. On the day when they left, both Bailixi and Jian Shu cried. When he heard of this, duke Mu was angered and said: "My soldiers are leaving, and you are discouraging them with your tears. Why? » The two old men said : « We would not dare discourage your troops. But as the army is leaving, so are our sons. We are old, and unless the soldiers come back quick, we fear that we will never see them again. This is the only reason why we cry. » The two old men left, and told their sons : « Should your army be defeated, it will certainly happen in the gorge of Xiao." In the thirty third year, in spring, the soldiers of Qin marched east. The passed through the territory of Jin, and entered the northern gate of the Zhou capital. Prince Man of Zhou said: " The army of Qin does not behave correctly, how can she hope not be defeated?" As the soldiers reached Hua, a merchant of Zheng, named Xian Gao, led twelve oxen he intended to sell in Zhou. As he saw the soldiers of Qin, he was afraid to be killed or taken prisoner, and offered his oxen to the soldiers, saying: " I have heard that your great state is about to destroy Zheng. The lord of Zheng is hurrying to repair his fortifications and prepare his defences. He entrusted me with these twelve oxen, to comfort your officers. » The three generals of Qin talked together, saying : « we intended to surprise Zheng, yet his prince has already been warned. Our campaign will fail." They proceeded to destroy Hua, a city on the border of Zheng.


Francois

This post has been edited by fcharton: 14 March 2007 - 08:40 AM

0

Share this topic:


Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users


Visitors have visited CHF