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What if Alexander had turned west?


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#1 Tibet Libre

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Posted 21 March 2007 - 07:30 AM

A little known, but fascinating example of counterfactual question, possibly the first in historiography, was raised by the Roman historian Livy (Book IX, sections 17-19). In his work on the history of Rome he contemplates the possibility of Alexander the Great expanding westward instead of eastward and attacking Rome in the 4th century BC and asks himself 'What would have been the results for Rome if she had been engaged in war with Alexander?'.

Here are his thoughts and reasonings:

Nothing can be thought to be further from my aim since I commenced this task than to digress more than is necessary from the order of the narrative or by embellishing my work with a variety of topics to afford pleasant resting-places, as it were, for my readers and mental relaxation for myself. The mention, however, of so great a king and commander induces me to lay before my readers some reflections which I have often made when I have proposed to myself the question, "What would have been the results for Rome if she had been engaged in war with Alexander? "The things which tell most in war are the numbers and courage of the troops, the ability of the commanders, and Fortune, who has such a potent influence over human affairs, especially those of war. Any one who considers these factors either separately or in combination will easily see that as the Roman empire proved invincible against other kings and nations, so it would have proved invincible against Alexander. Let us, first of all, compare the commanders on each side. I do not dispute that Alexander was an exceptional general, but his reputation is enhanced by the fact that he died while still young and before he had time to experience any change of fortune. Not to mention other kings and illustrious captains, who afford striking examples of the mutability of human affairs, I will only instance Cyrus, whom the Greeks celebrate as one of the greatest of men. What was it that exposed him to reverses and misfortunes but the length of his life, as recently in the case of Pompey the Great? Let me enumerate the Roman generals - not all out of all ages but only those with whom as consuls and Dictators Alexander would have had to fight - M. Valerius Corvus, C. Marcius Rutilus, C. Sulpicius, T. Manlius Torquatus, Q. Publilius Philo, L. Papirius Cursor, Q. Fabius Maximus, the two Decii, L. Volumnius, and Manlius Curius. Following these come those men of colossal mould who would have confronted him if he had first turned his arms against Carthage and then crossed over into Italy later in life. Every one of these men was Alexander's equal in courage and ability, and the art of war, which from the beginning of the City had been an unbroken tradition, had now grown into a science based on definite and permanent rules. It was thus that the kings conducted their wars, and after them the Junii and the Valerii, who expelled the kings, and in later succession the Fabii, the Quinctii, and the Cornelii. It was these rules that Camillus followed, and the men who would have had to fight with Alexander had seen Camillus as an old man when they were little more than boys.

Alexander no doubt did all that a soldier ought to do in battle, and that is not his least title to fame. But if Manlius Torquatus had been opposed to him in the field, would he have been inferior to him in this respect, or Valerius Corvus, both of them distinguished as soldiers before they assumed command? Would the Decii, who, after devoting themselves, rushed upon the enemy, or Papirius Cursor with his vast physical courage and strength? Would the clever generalship of one young man have succeeded in baffling the whole senate, not to mention individuals, that senate of which he, who declared that it was composed of kings, alone formed a true idea? Was there any danger of his showing more skill than any of those whom I have mentioned in choosing the site for his camp, or organising his commissariat, or guarding against surprises, or choosing the right moment for giving battle, or disposing his men in line of battle and posting his reserves to the best advantage? He would have said that it was not with Darius that he had to do, dragging after him a train of women and eunuchs, wrapped up in purple and gold, encumbered with all the trappings of state. He found him an easy prey rather than a formidable enemy and defeated him without loss, without being called to do anything more daring than to show a just contempt for the idle show of power. The aspect of Italy would have struck him as very different from the India which he traversed in drunken revelry with an intoxicated army; he would have seen in the passes of Apulia and the mountains of Lucania the traces of the recent disaster which befell his house when his uncle Alexander, King of Epirus, perished.

[9.18]I am speaking of Alexander as he was before he was submerged in the flood of success, for no man was less capable of bearing prosperity than he was. If we look at him as transformed by his new fortunes and presenting the new character, so to speak, which he had assumed after his victories, it is evident he would have come into Italy more like Darius than Alexander, and would have brought with him an army which had forgotten its native Macedonia and was rapidly becoming Persian in character. It is a disagreeable task in the case of so great a man to have to record his ostentatious love of dress; the prostrations which he demanded from all who approached his presence, and which the Macedonians must have felt to be humiliating, even had they been vanquished, how much more when they were victors; the terribly cruel punishments he inflicted; the murder of his friends at the banquet-table; the vanity which made him invent a divine pedigree for himself. What, pray, would have happened if his love of wine had become stronger and his passionate nature more violent and fiery as he grew older? I am only stating facts about which there is no dispute. Are we to regard none of these things as serious drawbacks to his merits as a commander? Or was there any danger of that happening which the most frivolous of the Greeks, who actually extol the Parthians at the expense of the Romans, are so constantly harping upon, namely, that the Roman people must have bowed before the greatness of Alexander's name - though I do not think they had even heard of him - and that not one out of all the Roman chiefs would have uttered his true sentiments about him, though men dared to attack him in Athens, the very city which had been shattered by Macedonian arms and almost well in sight of the smoking ruins of Thebes, and the speeches of his assailants are still extant to prove this?

However lofty our ideas of this man's greatness, still it is the greatness of one individual, attained in a successful career of little more than ten years. Those who extol it on the ground that though Rome has never lost a war she has lost many battles, whilst Alexander has never fought a battle unsuccessfully, are not aware that they are comparing the actions of one individual, and he a youth, with the achievements of a people who have had 800 years of war. Where more generations are reckoned on one side than years on the other, can we be surprised that in such a long space of time there have been more changes of fortune than in a period of thirteen years ? Why do you not compare the fortunes of one man with another, of one commander with another? How many Roman generals could I name who have never been unfortunate in a single battle! You may run through page after page of the lists of magistrates, both consuls and Dictators, and not find one with whose valour and fortunes the Roman people have ever for a single day had cause to be dissatisfied. And these men are more worthy of admiration than Alexander or any other king. Some retained the Dictatorship for only ten or twenty days; none held a consulship for more than a year; the levying of troops was often obstructed by the tribunes of the plebs; they were late, in consequence, in taking the field, and were often recalled before the time to conduct the elections; frequently, when they were commencing some important operation, their year of office expired; their colleagues frustrated or ruined their plans, some through recklessness, some through jealousy; they often had to succeed to the mistakes or failures of others and take over an army of raw recruits or one in a bad state of discipline. Kings are free from all hindrances; they are lords of time and circumstance, and draw all things into the sweep of their own designs. Thus, the invincible Alexander would have crossed swords with invincible captains, and would have given the same pledges to Fortune which they gave. Nay, he would have run greater risks than they, for the Macedonians had only one Alexander, who was not only liable to all sorts of accidents but deliberately exposed himself to them, whilst there were many Romans equal to Alexander in glory and in the grandeur of their deeds, and yet each of them might fulfil his destiny by his life or by his death without imperilling the existence of the State.

[9.19]It remains for us to compare the one army with the other as regards either the numbers or the quality of the troops or the strength of the allied forces. Now the census for that period gives 250,000 persons. In all the revolts of the Latin league ten legions were raised, consisting almost entirely of city troops. Often during those years four or five armies were engaged simultaneously in Etruria, in Umbria (where they had to meet the Gauls as well), in Samnium, and in Lucania. Then as regards the attitude of the various Italian tribes - the whole of Latium with the Sabines, Volscians, and Aequi, the whole of Campania, parts of Umbria and Etruria, the Picentines, the Marsi, and Paeligni, the Vestinians and Apulians, to which we should add the entire coast of the western sea, with its Greek population, stretching from Thurii to Neapolis and Cumae, and from there as far as Antium and Ostia - all these nationalities he would have found to be either strong allies of Rome or reduced to impotence by Roman arms. He would have crossed the sea with his Macedonian veterans, amounting to not more than 30,000 men and 4000 cavalry, mostly Thracian. This formed all his real strength. If he had brought over in addition Persians and Indians and other Orientals, he would have found them a hindrance rather than a help. We must remember also that the Romans had a reserve to draw upon at home, but Alexander, warring on a foreign soil, would have found his army diminished by the wastage of war, as happened afterwards to Hannibal. His men were armed with round shields and long spears, the Romans had the large shield called the scutum, a better protection for the body, and the javelin, a much more effective weapon than the spear whether for hurling or thrusting. In both armies the soldiers fought in line rank by rank, but the Macedonian phalanx lacked mobility and formed a single unit; the Roman army was more elastic, made up of numerous divisions, which could easily act separately or in combination as required. Then with regard to fatigue duty, what soldier is better able to stand hard work than the Roman?

If Alexander had been worsted in one battle the war would have been over; what army could have broken the strength of Rome, when Caudium and Cannae failed to do so? Even if things had gone well with him at first, he would often have been tempted to wish that Persians and Indians and effeminate Asiatics were his foes, and would have confessed that his former wars had been waged against women, as Alexander of Epirus is reported to have said when after receiving his mortal wound he was comparing his own fortune with that of this very youth in his Asiatic campaigns. When I remember that in the first Punic war we fought at sea for twenty-four years, I think that Alexander would hardly have lived long enough to see one war through. It is quite possible, too, that as Rome and Carthage were at that time leagued together by an old-standing treaty, the same apprehensions might have led those two powerful states to take up arms against the common foe, and Alexander would have been crushed by their combined forces. Rome has had experience of a Macedonian war, not indeed when Alexander was commanding nor when the resources of Macedon were still unimpaired, but the contests against Antiochus, Philip, and Perses were fought not only without loss but even without risk. I trust that I shall not give offence when I say that, leaving out of sight the civil wars, we have never found an enemy's cavalry or infantry too much for us, when we have fought in the open field, on ground equally favourable for both sides, still less when the ground has given us an advantage. The infantry soldier, with his heavy armour and weapons, may reasonably fear the arrows of Parthian cavalry, or passes invested by the enemy, or country where supplies cannot be brought up, but he has repulsed a thousand armies more formidable than those of Alexander and his Macedonians, and will repulse them in the future if only the domestic peace and concord which we now enjoy remains undisturbed for all the years to come.

http://mcadams.posc....ivy/Livy09.html


As a background information, there had been three attempts by Greek warlords from the mainland to establish themselves in lower Italy in the 4th and 3rd century BC, all of which had initially been supported by Tarent and all of which failed: By a Spartan general in the service of Tarent, by Alexander the Molossian (334-330 BC) and by the mercurial, but brilliant Pyrrhus (280-272 BC), according to traditional historiography ranked by Hannibal himself as the second only to Alexander.

#2 yarovit

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Posted 21 March 2007 - 11:18 AM

If he went West, he wouldn't rather attack Rome. West at that time was under Carthaginian supremacy. So, he would fight against Carthage. Rome would be more likely an ally. It was still realatively weak polity. Romans were not masters of the Italian peninsula at that time.
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#3 New Lord Shang

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Posted 21 March 2007 - 01:40 PM

A little known, but fascinating example of counterfactual question, possibly the first in historiography, was raised by the Roman historian Livy (Book IX, sections 17-19). In his work on the history of Rome he contemplates the possibility of Alexander the Great expanding westward instead of eastward and attacking Rome in the 4th century BC and asks himself 'What would have been the results for Rome if she had been engaged in war with Alexander?'.

Here are his thoughts and reasonings:
As a background information, there had been three attempts by Greek warlords from the mainland to establish themselves in lower Italy in the 4th and 3rd century BC, all of which had initially been supported by Tarent and all of which failed: By a Spartan general in the service of Tarent, by Alexander the Molossian (334-330 BC) and by the mercurial, but brilliant Pyrrhus (280-272 BC), according to traditional historiography ranked by Hannibal himself as the second only to Alexander.



Personally, I think Alexander would have had a tougher time against the Romans. In some ways, Alexander defeated an already decadent and corrupt Persian Empire, and a loosely formed empire at that. Against the nascent Roman Republic?, I think he would have suffered the same fate as Pyrrhus, Hannibal and so many other Greek adventurers. Don't be blinded by Alexandrian propaganda. History would have definitely changed, but only slightly. Rome would still dominate the Mediterranean world, but without the Hellenistic influence. The Legion would still have defeated the Macedonian Phalanx.

But since this is a Chinese history forum, the counterfactual history I like to contemplate is what if the Macedonians stopped whining and followed Alexander further east ??, into the China of the Warring States Era ?? Alexander the Great was a near contemporary of my namesake, ... Shang Yang, the great reformer of the State of Qin.

I like to believe the Chinese world and the Hellenistic world would have formed amicable relations, and a better world would have resulted.
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#4 Shining Path

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Posted 21 March 2007 - 02:05 PM

Come now... when have two groups of people ever stumbled upon one another and gotten along? especially when one is an army, whose sole intent is conquest, and the other is in a state of political chaos and war? China was not even getting along with itself at that point, and alexander would have needed to provide the oppertunity for plunder to his troops.

#5 New Lord Shang

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Posted 21 March 2007 - 02:31 PM

Come now... when have two groups of people ever stumbled upon one another and gotten along? especially when one is an army, whose sole intent is conquest, and the other is in a state of political chaos and war? China was not even getting along with itself at that point, and alexander would have needed to provide the oppertunity for plunder to his troops.



I didn't say people, you're right, people are nasty and their ways are brutish ... but two civilizations can form an appreciation for each other, Greece admired and emulated Egypt (didn't stop Greek racial domination of Egypt though, i.e. Ptolemaic Egypt), Macedonia of Philip / Alexander admired and emulated Classical Greece (didn't stop Alex from sacking Thebes) Rome admired and emulated Hellenistic Greece (didn't stop Romans from plundering and enslaving Greeks), Japan admired and emulated T'ang China (didn't stop ... well you get idea) ... but at the people level sure, conflict, but on a civilizational level, not necessarily.

And specifically to potentially rampaging Alexandrian armies, ... Alexander himself advocated reconciliation in the end between East and West. By the time of his Indian campaign, his goal was no longer riches (he'd had already won the entire Persian Treasury), but rather exploration.

But still, your point is valid, ... I too wonder what a battle between the Macedonia Phalanx and the Terracotta Army would be like ...
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#6 Mei Houwang

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Posted 21 March 2007 - 03:33 PM

Shouldn't Carthage be ecnomically more beneficial to conquer at this point?

#7 snowybeagle

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Posted 21 March 2007 - 10:51 PM

During Alexander's lifetime, the only major power of significance to the Greeks was Persia to the east. In comparison, fledgling states to the west, including Rome and Carthage, were probably considered as upstarts and never menaced the Greek homeland the way Persia did.

It was only natural for Alexander to cast his eyes to the east. Having established his overlordship over the Greek cities, the natural target would be against the only other competitor in the business, Persia. The Macedonians, unlike the maritime Greek cities, had less interest in Greek colonies to the west (coastal Italy, Sicily) which were then in direct conflicts against the Latin cities and Carthage.

For Alexander, the glory, the prize, was in defeating Persia. He was very much influenced by the Greek's ideas that the only civilised people other than the Greeks were the Egyptians and the Persians who showed more advancements and longer lineage compared to the Romans or the Carthagians. I suppose he consider it more worthwhile being master over civilised states rather than barbarian states.

Though Carthage was of Phoenician descent, another ancient civilisation, having conquered Tyre (ancestor city of Carthage), Alexander might have thought that proved his mastery over the Phoenicians.

Just my simplistic explanation.

Alexander's core troops were his infantry and cavalry. His maritime campaigns were mainly sieges of port cities like Tyre, and I read of no naval campaigns undertaken.

How he would fare against Carthage was anybody's guess, but given that Rome eventually did, it was possible that his (initial) lack of experience in maritime campaigns might not be decisive.

There was nothing to indicate his troops might not fare well in land campaigns in Italy, but I still think having been tutored by Aristotle, he considered it his aim in life to prove the Macedonians were not inferior to the "civilised" people. Hence, attacking the barbarians to the west would not satisfy this aim.

As for economies, I read that Leonidas (name of one of his tutor) chastised him for wasting excessive spices in sacrifical offerings to the gods, and told him that he could do what he like when he was a master of the spice-producing regions.

After Alexander took Gaza, a major spice trading post, he sent Leonidas 15 tons of myrrh as a comeback.
Economically, the wealth to the east outsized the wealth to the west.

#8 Richard Lim

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Posted 22 March 2007 - 09:07 AM

Alexander was indeed said to have planned on taking on the Carthaginians when he died. Ancient sources report naval preparations and even exaggerated claims of a circumnavigation of Africa that would have Alexander attack Carthage from the west!

As for the Romans, there is no credible evidence that Alexander thought much about them at all. Romans later on liked to flatter themselves that their ancestors were important enough to have mattered back in those days.... Similarly Jews imagined that Alexander came up to Jerusalem and met Jews there when good evidence suggests that he simply took the Gaza (coastal) road down to Egypt without going inland to see Jews.

In the quoted text above, Livy was indulging in one of the favorite sports of Roman intellectuals, that is, defining themselves against the Greeks. He displays the usual cultural inferiority complex (or anxiety) that one sees time and again in such writers. And many of his claims are fatuous and not unlike some of the comments that one may find in certain modern discussion forums ... just insert appropriate names into this formula: "our ancestors would / could have kicked the stuffing out of your ancestors if only they had met on the battlefield !

Can you imagine Iranian bloggers today posting how numerous and strong the Achaemenid Persian army was, that it had conquered much of the known world, that it boasted 10,000 Greek mercenaries and a world-beating Phoenician fleet, and that no Greek let alone Macedonian army alone could possibly ever be its match in the attack. Based on numbers that might sound reasonable but also just plain wrong in historical terms. Alexander's victories were if anything always achieved against the balance of contemporary expectations and indeed defied all the odds.

Edited by Richard Lim, 22 March 2007 - 09:11 AM.

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#9 JiG

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Posted 22 March 2007 - 11:19 PM

Personally, I think Alexander would have had a tougher time against the Romans. In some ways, Alexander defeated an already decadent and corrupt Persian Empire, and a loosely formed empire at that. Against the nascent Roman Republic?, I think he would have suffered the same fate as Pyrrhus, Hannibal and so many other Greek adventurers. Don't be blinded by Alexandrian propaganda. History would have definitely changed, but only slightly. Rome would still dominate the Mediterranean world, but without the Hellenistic influence. The Legion would still have defeated the Macedonian Phalanx.

The Legion at this time, if i'm not mistaken, still fought in Greek Phalanx style and was not the professional Roman Army we think of today when we think of legionnaires. It wasn't untill the early 1st century B.C when Gauis Marius brought in reforms to the army tactics, recruitment and longer service length that the legionnaires became what we think of them as today.

#10 Ashura

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Posted 31 March 2007 - 11:20 PM


Personally, I think Alexander would have had a tougher time against the Romans. In some ways, Alexander defeated an already decadent and corrupt Persian Empire, and a loosely formed empire at that. Against the nascent Roman Republic?, I think he would have suffered the same fate as Pyrrhus, Hannibal and so many other Greek adventurers. Don't be blinded by Alexandrian propaganda. History would have definitely changed, but only slightly. Rome would still dominate the Mediterranean world, but without the Hellenistic influence. The Legion would still have defeated the Macedonian Phalanx.


The Legion at this time, if i'm not mistaken, still fought in Greek Phalanx style and was not the professional Roman Army we think of today when we think of legionnaires. It wasn't untill the early 1st century B.C when Gauis Marius brought in reforms to the army tactics, recruitment and longer service length that the legionnaires became what we think of them as today.

One thing to add that Roman Republic at that time did not directly control the whole Italy. It relied on the Latin Alliance for its authority over Italia, and it remained that way during the Punic Wars, that's why when Hannibal invaded Italia he headed for the South to break the alliance.

As for Legion beating Macedonian Phalanx, they did during Caesar's time. Roman at the time of Alexander's did fight in phalanx style.

As for Hellenistic influence, Greek influenced the Roman culture greatly through out the whole Roman history due to the fact that the Greek had settlements in Italia.
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#11 Alexander39

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Posted 01 April 2007 - 07:33 AM

Theres several misconceptions about the Macedonian Phalanx and its use in here, also the Phalanx that was beaten so soundly in 107 BC in Greece by the Romans were NOT the same as Alexanders 220 years before.
Alexanders Phalanx were used as the anvil as well as the hammer in combat, and were NEVER intended to stand alone, also the Phillip/Alexander Phalanx were trained to be both more maneuverable as well as independent (In a limited fashion) from it's comrades, this was made possible by letting the Phalanx be trained in smaller units of 256 men each for a frontage of 16 and a depth of 16 normally + unit leaders and runners that were an integral part of the unit as such.
Also contrary to the Macedonian Phalanxes beaten by the Romans the Phillip/Alexander Phalanx were comprehensibly trained in *About face* maneuvers for parts of or the whole forces at once and the leaders at ground level had fairly wide discretions in when and were they should turn to face an enemy that tried to outflank them AS LONG they didn't go on some misbegotten chase after seemingly easy targets. IE The primary targets would ALWAYS be the goals given at the start of the battle or before.
Rome in Alexanders time would have been over run by Alexander or some of his better generals, but Rome would NOT be the target at the start of a western campaign, which anyway wouldn't get the go ahead before the fall of the Persian empire, after that it was Cartage that was the goal as Alexander had an Axe to grind whit them after his siege of Tyre, also they were a wealthy nation whit much to offer in both trade goods and some raw materials too.
Rome at this time were not in a shape were they would be able to withstand the worlds first true combined arms armies (plural) as Alexander would have send what was needed to conquer the 'italian peninsular, a more exciting quistion would be what influence the Greeco/Macedonian culture would have on the Roman and vise versa, also wether the early manipular system would have been adaptet by Alexander to further reinforce his millitary. also wether the Romans would adopt some of he lessons given to them by close contact at this early stage by a true combined arms force
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Worth remembering that truth is not the same as law of reality. IE the law of gravity no matter how it is describet is always as law that counts, likewise all other natural laws, it is only our incomplete grasp of them that can make them seem inconsistent or untruthfull.

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#12 JiG

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Posted 01 April 2007 - 04:13 PM

As for Hellenistic influence, Greek influenced the Roman culture greatly through out the whole Roman history due to the fact that the Greek had settlements in Italia.

Also Romans had taken alot if things like statues and artworks from Greeks after they had been conquered. There was even a Roman emperor or commander who had allowed his troops to pillage Greece, after they had defeated I think the Achaean League, as spoils for their victory. Thats also why you see alot of originally Greek works in Rome, however sometimes they are copies and not the original.

#13 Ashura

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Posted 01 April 2007 - 04:53 PM

Theres several misconceptions about the Macedonian Phalanx and its use in here, also the Phalanx that was beaten so soundly in 107 BC in Greece by the Romans were NOT the same as Alexanders 220 years before.

The misconceptions are laid with the mentioning of the Roman legion in this hypothetical question. Since the Roman did not fight in legion in Alexander's time, the only valid comparison with legion and Macedonia phalanx is of time of the Roman conquest of Greece.
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#14 Alexander39

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Posted 02 April 2007 - 08:45 AM

The misconceptions are laid with the mentioning of the Roman legion in this hypothetical question. Since the Roman did not fight in legion in Alexander's time, the only valid comparison with legion and Macedonia phalanx is of time of the Roman conquest of Greece.


True but most seems to educate the late Macedonian Phalanx beaten so soundly by the Romans whit the Phillip/Alexander Phalanx which is a mistake since the later Phalanx were just as much a matter of poorer training and recruits on average, as it was of anything else, incl normal advancedment in the arms race, which in this case sought to compensate for shorter and smaller recuitment bases. IE The inflexibillity were made inevitable since recruits should be able to fit in in a very short time whit little or no drill time, this is not to say they were indisiplined, far from it, the resourses to make them soldiers were just less and so was the need seen from whitout. (Even the Romans admittet as much when they purposely made sure they NEVER met the Phalanx on level ground).

But as to the result, it is a given that turning west is only an option AFTER the conquest of the Persian Empire, so it is more a quistion of letting Alexander survive long enough after his return from the east ,which givne sleightly different circumstances is not unlikely, and give him 30 years more it is not inconcivable that his empire would strech even furthey by far than the Roman empire at it's height.

As to further campaigns by Alexander, two were known to have been seriusly planned and begun to be prepared for, and they even made sense. the first were a partly naval campaign to get the Arabian peninsular under his control, which would incl all the coastal provinces and the coast off Ethiopia and Somalia too. This would insure that his empires expences and taxes from Spice trade would fall (It's expences) and resources would increase (from taxes on the same trade) by cutting out a middleman and taxing him at the same time.
The other were his planned campaign against the Carthagenians, which were both a manifestation of strenght (Dont interfer in his wars. IE support cities that he is besieging) and to be writ of a constant annoyance in his *Back*, it would also make further campaigns against the remaining mediterranian powers MUCH easier since he would be both by default and because of the campaign itself the dominant naval power in the Med'
My motto would be 'Truth will out, but no truth is absolute'.
We all should look for the truth, no matter how painful or obnoxious it might be. but we always have to keep in mind that any truth we find will be coloured by both our self as well as those that createt it. an absolute truth is always impossible to reach since we as species by nature is falible. the greatest danger is when we convinces our self that the truth we know is the only truth that counts.

Worth remembering that truth is not the same as law of reality. IE the law of gravity no matter how it is describet is always as law that counts, likewise all other natural laws, it is only our incomplete grasp of them that can make them seem inconsistent or untruthfull.

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#15 Richard Lim

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Posted 02 April 2007 - 09:01 AM

I think the career of Pyrrhus of Epirus (318-272 BC) quite definitively addresses this question. The army he employed notionally in the service of the Greeks of Tarentum who were trying to resist Roman encroachment was not that different from one that Alexander (his cousin once removed) might have deployed after his eastern conquests. Pyrrhus won every battle against the Romans but ultimately lost the war (though undefeatedand this was entirely due to manpower limitations on his part since every victory he won cost him irreplaceable soldiers.

As lord of Asia etc. etc., Alexander would not have had this manpower problem and, moreover, has command of a significant siege train (see siege of Tyre). He would have gone from decisive battlefield victories to a siege to take Rome, something that neither Pyrrhus nor Hannibal could attempt let alone accomplish due to their lack of resources. In short, Alexander would have won and the outcome would not ever have been in doubt.

But I agree with Alexander39, Rome would not have been a prime target for Alexander. As for the effects of conquest, adoption of Greek ways is not a decisive element since the Romans were already under quite substantial Greek cultural influence (a large measure mediated through the Etruscans) already from the time of the kings.
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