42 replies to this topic

[Tyler]

In the English languagethere are artcles such as "a, an, and the". My question is does the Chinese Language use artcles?

[snowybeagle]

In the English languagethere are artcles such as "a, an, and the". My question is does the Chinese Language use artcles?

Not in the same manner as in the English language.

If you like to know more, perhaps you could provide some sentence examples on how the articles are used in different contexts and we could discuss further.

Of course, there is no vowel specific article in the Chinese language.

[Yun]

It's actually far more complicated to say 'a such-and-such' in Chinese. In English, there are special collective nouns for some kinds of objects, such as 'bunch of keys' and 'gaggle of geese'. But in Chinese every kind of object has a measure word or classifier (liangci 量词), such that saying 'a handphone', 'a table', 'a horse', and 'a man' requires you to know and use a different classifier in each case, in the format of 'one xx (of) handphone' and so on.

On the other hand, conjugation (verb forms and tenses) in English is very tricky, while Chinese doesn't have conjugation. So it's fair!

Guys here who know Chinese - let's have a little exercise to teach our beginner friends the different kinds of 'liangci'! I'll start...

个 ge (4th tone): this is the generic or 'default' classifier for nouns without a special classifier of their own. Often if a less proficient speaker is unsure of the special classifier for a noun, he can just use this one, and people will still understand what he means. Examples: 'a man' is 一个人; 'three apples' is 三个苹果.

[Kulong]

Just to clear something up, not every single noun has its own measure word (MW). For example, the MW 张 zhang can be applied to ANYTHING that's flat and generally in a squarish shape like 一张床 (a bed), 一张纸 (a piece of paper), 一张卡 (a piece of card)... etc.

Also, having MWs can actually be an advantage sometimes. Instead of saying the noun, you can usually just say the MW and people will understand you. For example:

A: 你有几张纸 ni you ji zhang zhi (how many pieces of paper do you have?)

B: 我有三张 wo you san zhang (I have three pieces.)

or if both parties are aware of the subject, both sides can leave out the noun completely. For example, if you were to go to a supermarket to buy fish.

A: 麻烦请给我两条 mafan qing gei wo liang tiao* (Please give me two "tiao")

*条 tiao is the MW for fish and anything generally "flat" and "long" like 皮带 pidai (belt) and 蛇 she (snake), 绳子 shengzi (rope) ... etc.

Also, MWs can be also used to exaggerate and/or tell jokes. For example, 头 (tou2) is the MW for any large animals like 一头牛 (a cow), 一头大象 (an elephant), 一头狮子 (a lion)... etc. although people in Taiwan sometimes substitute 头 (tou2) with 隻 / 只 (zhi1). Anyway, so when you exaggerate, you can say you saw 一头老鼠 (a [giant] rat).

------------

量词 Liangci:

张 (zhang1) can be applied to anything that's flat and generally in a squarish shape like 一张床 (a bed), 一张纸 (a piece of paper), 一张卡 (a piece of card)... etc.

条 (tiao2) is the MW for fish and anything generally "flat" and "long" like 皮带 pidaiy (belt) and 蛇 she (snake), 绳子 shengzi (rope) ... etc.

头 (tou2) usually used for large animals like cows, elephants, lions... etc. although can be substituted with 只 (zhi1).

[Zuo Zongtang]

Guess its my turn for a lecture.

匹 pi1- used for horses.

辆 liang4- used for cars

块 kuai4- means piece, as in piece of pie, piece of land, piece of meat, etc.

本 ben3- several different meaning for this. It is a liangci for book, but it can also mean me, when your taking about yourself ie: 本人想... This person (I) think...

Liangci is probably one of the hardest parts of Chinese to a Westerner because there are so many of them to remember. Of course, compared to English grammar, liangci is much easier.

[Kulong]

本 ben3- several different meaning for this. It is a liangci for book, but it can also mean me, when your taking about yourself ie: 本人想... This person (I) think...

Actually, 本人 benren is a noun by itself.

[Koolasuchus]

把 - measure word for any small things that can be held by one hand.

eg. 一把伞 (umbrilla), 一把手机 (celluarphone), 一把左轮手枪 (revolver), etc.

[Yun]

Quick test for you learners out there! What are the measure words for these objects?

Ball
Computer
Lamp
Hand
Leg
Star
School
Corpse
Sea
Airplane

[Wú Fēi]

In the English languagethere are artcles such as "a, an, and the". My question is does the Chinese Language use artcles?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's actually far more complicated to say 'a such-and-such' in Chinese. In English, there are special collective nouns for some kinds of objects, such as 'bunch of keys' and 'gaggle of geese'. But in Chinese every kind of object has a measure word or classifier (liangci 量词), such that saying 'a handphone', 'a table', 'a horse', and 'a man' requires you to know and use a different classifier in each case, in the format of 'one xx (of) handphone' and so on.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yun said the right.
Actually in Centerian there are no uncountable nouns at all. We always can find a "Range" for classifying nouns, such as "piece" in "a piece of paper". The Range here as "piece" is called as "量词/Liang4 Ci2". It may be the features of the noun, or the status of something, or a location for an event, etc. Those Liu Ce mentioned as "a, an, the" are called in text books as "冠词", which are never used in Centerian.
It is said that 量词 is a philologic feature of Han-Tibetan family. Anyway, 量词 are used more commonly and widely in modern Centerian than that in any of the languages of Indo-European family, as in English. They are based on dialects and certainly have the sense of the commendatory, the derogatory and the neutral. Some of 量词 are used just for certain.
========================
List of the 量词 in common use
========================
Format:
Name in Simplified Character/Traditional Character, Pin Yin;
Sense (C=Commendatory, D=Derogatory, N=Neutral, X=No certain sense);
W (Written Language)/S (Spoken Language)/ B (Both);
Using Environment;
Samples.
========================
个/個, Ge4;
X;
S, B;
Generally to refer to those could be consider as a individual or a unit;
一个人 (a person), 一个苹果 (an apple), 一个结论 (a conclusion).

只/只, Zhi1;
X;
S, B;
Generally to refer to those could be consider as a individual, especially for animals and something with "life" or limbs of a animal;
一只手 (a hand), 一只苹果 (an apple), 一只老虎 (a tiger), 一只风筝 (a kite), 一只虫子 (an individual of insect).

条/條, Tiao2;
X;
S, B;
For those are like strips;
一条鱼 (an individual of fish), 一条裤子 (trousers for one), 一条马路 (a road), 一条汉子 (a manful fellow), 一条虫子 (a worm).

尾/尾, Wei3;
X;
W;
For those have tails and tail fins, especially for the water livings.
一尾鱼 (an individual of fish), 一尾虾 (a shrimp).

张/張, Zhang1;
X;
B;
For pieces or areas, which could be tiled;
一张纸 (a piece of paper), 一张脸 (a face), 一张桌子 (a desk/table).

块/塊, Kuai4;
X;
S;
For blocks or those obviously have volume but no containers;
一块石头 (a stone), 一块面包 (a loaf), 一块木头 (a piece of wood), 一块地 (a field).
(Note: "一块钱" may possibly come from "a block of metal coin", but today it means "one Yuan" commonly.)

面/面, Mian4;
X;
S, B;
For areas which are upstanding usually;
一面镜子 (a mirror), 一面墙 (a wall as to be seen in a room).

堵/堵, Du3;
X, D;
S, B;
For areas or blocks which are upstanding or blocking up.
一堵墙 (a wall as to fence around), 一堵石堆 (a mound of stones), 一堵门 (a door as blocking up in the pass).

道/道, Dao4;
X;
W;
For layers; For tracks and notches;
一道黄纸 (a piece of yellow paper, which is burnt for gods or ancestors), 一道门 ( a gate as outside or a door as inside); 一道车辙 (a track by bike/car, etc.); 一道伤疤 (a seam/wound).

扇/扇, Shan4;
X;
W, B;
For layers that are upstanding usually or the fan-likes;
一扇窗 (a window), 一扇门 (a door as a page), 一扇翅膀 (a wing).

尊/尊, Zun1;
C;
W;
For big statuaries or those could be taken as great or giant;
一尊神 (a god), 一尊石狮子 (a carved stone lion), 一尊大炮 (a cannon).

座/座, Zuo4;
X;
W, B;
For those have bases, perhaps big bases;
一座山 (a hill/mountain), 一座大楼 (a building), 一座桥 (a bridge).

栋/棟, Dong4;
C, X;
W, B;
For buildings with height and width;
一栋大厦 (a high-rise), 一栋豪宅 (a luxury house).

架/架, Jia4;
X;
W, B;
For machines with structures or bridge-likes are over heads;
一架飞机 (an airplane), 一架坦克 (a tank), 一架桥 (a bridge).

员/員, Yuan2;
C;
W;
For individual people as well done in an assistant post;
一员大将 (a meritorious general).

辆/輛, Liang4;
X;
S, B;
For vehicles;
一辆汽车 (an automobile).

艘/艘, Sou1;
X;
S, B;
For ships;
一艘船 (a ship).

枝/枝, Zhi1;
C, X;
B;
For those with single branches;
一枝花 (a flower), 一枝箭 (an arrow).

朵/朵, Duo3;
C, X;
W, B;
For the petal-likes or those are agglomerate;
一朵云 (a cloud), 一朵花 (a flower), 一朵棉花 (a piece of cotton), 一朵红晕 (blush).

株/株, Zhu1;
C, X;
W;
For individual plants that are not too thick and tall, especially still living;
一株牡丹 (a peony).

支/支, Zhi1;
X;
S, B;
For the branch-likes and those performed with branch-likes, more abstract;
一支笔 (a pen/pencil, etc.), 一支歌 (a song), 一支曲子 (melody).

首/首, Shou3;
C;
B;
For pieces of poems, etc. ;
一首歌 (a song), 一首诗 (a poem).

杯/杯, Bei1;
X;
S;
For cups or glasses;
一杯茶 (a cup of tea), 一杯酒 (a goblet of wine).

头/頭, Tou2;
X, D;
S;
For head-countable individuals, especially for big animals;
一头大象 (an elephant), 一头猛虎 (a fierce tiger), 一头鲸 (a whale).

口/口, Kou3;
X, D;
S;
For those have obvious feature of "mouth", usually not for human;
一口猪 (a pig), 一口井 (a well), 一口锅 (boiler).

======================================
My God! I just got collapse for being tired out by typing.
I should give myself a nice sleep for encouragement.
I'll post more when finish enjoying my dream.

[General_Zhaoyun]

wow.. Wufei.. you really contribute to this forum alot!

[Yun]

只/只, Zhi1;
X;
S, B;
Generally to refer to those could be consider as a individual, especially for animals and something with "life" or limbs of a animal;
一只手 (a hand), 一只苹果 (an apple), 一只老虎 (a tiger), 一只风筝 (a kite), 一只虫子 (an individual of insect).

Hmm, I thought that 只 was written differently in traditional characters?

Just a minor niggle - otherwise, the list is a great one! Would anyone like to try answering my quiz now, based on Wu Fei's list?

[Kulong]

隻 zhi (traditional Chinese)

[Wú Fēi]

隻 zhi (traditional Chinese)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes. Sorry for my oversight, and thanks for your kindness.

wow.. Wufei.. you really contribute to this forum alot!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I take it for what I should do.

I just found a interesting phenomenon:
in classical language/文言文 Liangci were used less than today.
Some 量词 more.
========================
List of the 量词 in common use
========================
Format:
Name in Simplified Character/Traditional Character, Pin Yin;
Sense (C=Commendatory, D=Derogatory, N=Neutral, X=No certain sense);
W (Written Language)/S (Spoken Language)/ B (Both);
Using Environment;
Samples.
========================
件/件, Jian4;
X;
S, B;
For those could be measured by a certain unit as piece, some may be nonobjective;
一件衣服 (a dress), 一件作品 (a production), 一件事儿 (a thing/event, etc.).
(Note: Nowadays "件" is also an available measurement unit in such as post office and railway consignment. "我的一件行李"="My package".)

套/套, Tao4;
X, D;
S, B;
For series or sets;
一套书 (a series of books), 一套衣服 (a suit), 一套说辞 (a lecture/sermon/pretext...).

宗/宗, Zong1;
X, D;
W;
For those could be taken as an affair;
一宗邮件 (a mail/letter), 一宗案件 (a law case), 一宗麻烦 (a trouble).

叶/葉, Ye4;
C;
W;
For leaf-like existence;
一叶扁舟 (a boat), 一叶字帖 (a page of copybook).
(Note: Sometimes 叶/leaf=页/page, which is pronounced in the same way.)

本/本, Ben3;
X;
B;
For the book-likes or those could be written in a book;
一本书 (a book), 一本坏帐 (bad debts).

位/位, Wei4;
C;
W, B;
For individual persons, especially who could be paid attention to or could be honored.
一位女士 (a lady), 一位将军 (a general).

名/名, Ming2;
X;
W, B;
As the same as "位", but usually for people's posts/profession/identities;
一名教师 (a teacher), 一名恐怖分子 (a terrorist).

匹/匹, Pi1;
X, D;
W, B;
For individual animals could be considered for a single.
一匹马 (a horse), 一匹狼 (a wolf).
(Note: Nowadays "匹" is also an available measurement unit for cloths. "一匹"="? metres".)

床/床, Chuang2;
X;
S, B;
For those could be tiled or covered on the bed;
一床席子 (a matting), 一床被 (a quilt).

盏/盞, Zhan3;
X;
W;
For those could be taken for small containers with cubage, or those could be filled in such containers;
一盏灯 (a light/lamp), 一盏酒 (a calix of wine).
(Note: Because of the light in ancient time was made by a calix/盏 with a wick and oil in it, so that we measure lights or lamps with the unit of "盏".)
===================================
More for tomorrow.
Hope you all have nice dream.

[Wú Fēi]

Just to add some. Hanyupinyin part, need help from others, i am not good at it. There are also collective terms which are not covered yet.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

oh, confused codes in my page.

=================
now it works on my computer.

Edited by Wú Fēi, 31 December 2004 - 11:12 AM.