147 replies to this topic

[大学语文12345]

Ok, and what about his words towards my country! It's much more worse than mines!
Genghis Khan is my national father! How do you respond to me, if I say Genghis Khan is the national father and great emperor of China?
驱除鞑虏，恢复中华。 是谁说的？！
你和我骂的人严重伤害了我！

Please refrain from (even bleeped) expletives in the future. Insulting language is not allowed and appropriate action has been taken in this case already.

[Richard Lim]

Ok, and what about his words towards my country! It's much more worse than mines!
Genghis Khan is my national father! How do you respond to me, if I say Genghis Khan is the national father and great emperor of China?
驱除鞑虏，恢复中华。 是谁说的？！
你和我骂的人严重伤害了我！

Since you raised the issue in public you will receive a public response. If you wish to continue to discuss this I would advise that you pm me instead.

I agree with you that deliberately insulting another's country should be out of bounds. It would be considered flame-baiting at the very least.

I re-read the statement that you referred to when you made your post. The poster qualified his statement with "I think" and I did not get the sense that he has set out to insult anyone knowingly (but unknowingly he certainly has). You may disagree, and disagree most strongly, with his stated idea but he was simply stating it as an idea he has. You would be perfectly in your right to correct his impression through *reasoned argument* esp. since he did not set out to insult you or your country. Insult is not appropriate nor is it condoned in this context.

The poster you attacked has not backed the idea of 驱除鞑虏，恢复中华 (sorry I just hate simplified characters! hope no one is offended) on this thread. [I imagine you are thinking of another poster who said something like it in an earlier post. Note that another poster has addressed the ideas behind first poster's (and the early Republic's) anti-Qing rhetoric in historical context in a manner that is both reasonable and helpful to all ... and he did so without resorting to personal insult.]

On other occasions such expressed sentiments have been rebuffed by staff on CHF and individuals have even been issued warning over this. I can assure you that while there is a measure of blatant Han chauvinism among CHF's membership, everyone is asked to play by the same forum rules regardless of belief or creed.

I am sorry that you felt hurt by all this and I hope you can see that there is nothing personal or ad hominem in this moderator response.

[大学语文12345]

Since you raised the issue in public you will receive a public response. If you wish to continue to discuss this I would advise that you pm me instead.

I forgive his words toward my country, and I totally agree with your point of view. Plus I like that phrase"I think" very much, because you don't responsible for your comments, and be afraid of being banned or warned, if "I think " is included in your comments!
I think Genghis Khan is the God of Chinese people. And I think he brought great happyness and splendid memory to Chinese people. And I think Chinese people must enjoy it very much.
As to simplified Chinese character, I don't like it to the bone, nevertheless, I don't know how to transform simplified words to complicated one!
Can you write a beautiful calligraphy? I ,m sure that you are be good at it! I once got a national award on it two years ago(in China)!
I agree with you that deliberately insulting another's country should be out of bounds. It would be considered flame-baiting at the very least.

I re-read the statement that you referred to when you made your post. The poster qualified his statement with "I think" and I did not get the sense that he has set out to insult anyone knowingly (but unknowingly he certainly has). You may disagree, and disagree most strongly, with his stated idea but he was simply stating it as an idea he has. You would be perfectly in your right to correct his impression through *reasoned argument* esp. since he did not set out to insult you or your country. Insult is not appropriate nor is it condoned in this context.

No poster has backed the idea of 驱除鞑虏，恢复中华 (sorry I just hate simplified characters! hope no one is offended) at all on this thread. On other occasions such expressed sentiments have been rebuffed by staff on CHF and individuals have even been issued warning over this. I can assure you that while there is a measure of blatant Han chauvinism among CHF's membership, everyone is asked to play by the same forum rules regardless of belief or creed.

I am sorry that you felt hurt by all this and I hope you can see that there is nothing personal or ad hominem in this moderator response.

[大学语文12345]

I forgive his words toward my country, and I totally agree with your point of view. Plus I like that phrase"I think" very much, because you don't responsible for your comments, and be afraid of being banned or warned, if "I think " is included in your comments!
I think Genghis Khan is the God of Chinese people. And I think he brought great happyness and splendid memory to Chinese people. And I think Chinese people must enjoy it very much.
As to simplified Chinese character, I don't like it to the bone, nevertheless, I don't know how to transform simplified words to complicated one in my screen!
Can you write a beautiful calligraphy? I ,m sure that you are be good at it! I once got a national award on it two years ago(in China)!

Since you raised the issue in public you will receive a public response. If you wish to continue to discuss this I would advise that you pm me instead.

I agree with you that deliberately insulting another's country should be out of bounds. It would be considered flame-baiting at the very least.

I re-read the statement that you referred to when you made your post. The poster qualified his statement with "I think" and I did not get the sense that he has set out to insult anyone knowingly (but unknowingly he certainly has). You may disagree, and disagree most strongly, with his stated idea but he was simply stating it as an idea he has. You would be perfectly in your right to correct his impression through *reasoned argument* esp. since he did not set out to insult you or your country. Insult is not appropriate nor is it condoned in this context.

No poster has backed the idea of 驱除鞑虏，恢复中华 (sorry I just hate simplified characters! hope no one is offended) at all on this thread. On other occasions such expressed sentiments have been rebuffed by staff on CHF and individuals have even been issued warning over this. I can assure you that while there is a measure of blatant Han chauvinism among CHF's membership, everyone is asked to play by the same forum rules regardless of belief or creed.

I am sorry that you felt hurt by all this and I hope you can see that there is nothing personal or ad hominem in this moderator response.

[Richard Lim]

You are a quick forum learner! Well done!

If you would like to show us your calligraphy you can use the CHF Gallery section to do it. We would be delighted and honoured to see your award-winning work indeed.

I have just started a thread (a bit tongue in cheek I admit) about whether Chinggis Khaan or Sükhbaatar is the Father of (Modern) Mongolia in the Asian History Subforum. Go and tell us what you think there!

Cheers, Richard

[大学语文12345]

No Problem, I think I will meet many friends who like and love Chinese calligraphy. Cheers

You are a quick forum learner! Well done!

If you would like to show us your calligraphy you can use the CHF Gallery section to do it. We would be delighted and honoured to see your award-winning work indeed.

I have just started a thread (a bit tongue in cheek I admit) about whether Chinggis Khaan or Sükhbaatar is the Father of (Modern) Mongolia in the Asian History Subforum. Go and tell us what you think there!

Cheers, Richard

[Dagvadorj]

Bloody nerd! Genghis Khan is my national father! Keep your ******* mind clear that Mongolia is a country! Our God is Tengri and Genghis Khan!

Of course, Mongolia is a separate and independent country. Please notice that i marked "for ideally". Bureaucratic and people's rule are really different concept for Asian countries. It's my point.

[大学语文12345]

Ok you can speak it to any Mongol men you meet on the street and see their reaction. They will give you a proper response!
But I recommend you don't do it, otherwise you will be reduced to the ground immediately.
别让我的同胞给三长两短了！

Of course, Mongolia is a separate and independent country. Please notice that i marked "for ideally". Bureaucratic and people's rule are really different concept for Asian countries. It's my point.

[Dagvadorj]

Ok you can speak it to any Mongol men you meet on the street and see their reaction. They will give you a proper response!
But I recommend you don't do it, otherwise you will be reduced to the ground immediately.
别让我的同胞给三长两短了！

I think you understand it wrongly. I am a Mongol and I do love Genghis Khan. Understand that we are in the Republican forum and taling about Republican era.

[Wei Lung]

I hear some people saying that Sun is considered as the father of china as he was the 1 who started a republic..whereas some people say that Mao is regarded as the father of china while Sun is the father of taiwan..

So which is true?

Technically, i'd say Qin Shi Huang is the father of China.

As for MODERN China, i'd say Sun Yat-sen, and i think i'd already explained why i think so in a previous Topic.

If it wasn't for Zhongshan, the Kuomingtang wouldn't exist, therefore the KMT respect him.
If it wasn't for Zhongshan, Mao never would have gotten an education, therefore Mao respected him.
If it wasn't for Zhongshan and Mao, Deng Xiaoping would have never ruled China, therefore the CCP respect him.
If it wasn't for Zhongshan, Mao and Deng Xiaoping, China would never be the Powerhouse it is today.

so in the end, the True answer is Sun Yat-sen.

[hihihi]

Both of them are forerunner of modern time China, one goes after westernization and another goes for Soviet-style Marxist-Lenism.

As Sun gets older and time passes by, his definition of the Three People's Principles somewhat got changed to a more left-leaning style. One reason was b/c he wants to develp TPP to a mature and working one by himself, another reason was because his experiences told him that western colonial rulers were still seperating China and gave little help to his career in GuanDong except Soviet Union.

Mao belived in Communist in the pratical sense and implement it to China, China became the testing ground for Communism for many years.

Edited by hihihi, 16 June 2008 - 10:26 AM.

[Mr_Monyet]

i would just like to add that whoever becomes "father of China" is often a matter of political expediency. History is often being written and rewritten.....and various fathers of china (in whatever manifestations of it) are being evaluated, re-evaluated, and the key players/fathers lionified or vilified according to the existing ideology or favour of the day....this has been the case with Sun Yat Seng, Chiang Kai Shek, Mao Tze Dong and even old Gengish Khan himself.

Also don't forget that there will still be future fathers of china yet unborn.....and other fathers whose greatness we still cannot yet fathom without the fullness of time (Deng Xiao Peng comes to mind)....

So get used to the idea that there will never be a definitive father of China....

Actually, I am tempted to start a new thread on "mothers of China". Now, that would really be something to talk about.....hehehe

[Wan Ren aka Danny]

i would just like to add that whoever becomes "father of China" is often a matter of political expediency. History is often being written and rewritten.....and various fathers of china (in whatever manifestations of it) are being evaluated, re-evaluated, and the key players/fathers lionified or vilified according to the existing ideology or favour of the day....this has been the case with Sun Yat Seng, Chiang Kai Shek, Mao Tze Dong and even old Gengish Khan himself.

Also don't forget that there will still be future fathers of china yet unborn.....and other fathers whose greatness we still cannot yet fathom without the fullness of time (Deng Xiao Peng comes to mind)....

So get used to the idea that there will never be a definitive father of China....

Actually, I am tempted to start a new thread on "mothers of China". Now, that would really be something to talk about.....hehehe

There is already a definitive father of modern China and that is Dr. Sun Yet Sen he has been recognize as such by the international community.

Every recognize history books have Dr. Sun Yet Sen as the father of modern China.

Mao tried to rewrite that history by erasing part of Chinese history but he failed.

[mariusj]

I think Genghis Khan is the God of Chinese people. And I think he brought great happyness and splendid memory to Chinese people. And I think Chinese people must enjoy it very much.

This is like baiting isn't it?

Well, I think 天可汗 Li ShiMing is the God of all Steppe people, and i think he brought great happiness and splendid memory to all Steppe people, including the Mongols who didn't exist yet, and I think all these Steppe people enjoyed it very much.

I also think Xu Da, the Marshal of Ming, is like a God to all Steppe people, I think he brought great happiness and splendid memory to all Steppe people, including the Mongols.