I already give you even three verses from Primary Chronicle, now it is your turn to provide any piece of Journal that negate the existence of the Mongol control in Irtysh river, and stop yelling at geograhical facts, I know bloody well those areas, and even I can speak out from these sources that the trading contact of Kievan Rus wider than everything you could imagine.
Three irrelevant verses that contradicts nothing on my map. Furthermore, I never stated that the Mongols didn't control the Irtysh, or even the northern Irtysh, why did you assume that I did? I said they didn't control the Taiga territories.
I doubt that you could learn something if you do not look at the fact that Kievan Rus source gives us much more potential view on Mongolian control than what we could think of.
Instead of wasting time bickering, why don't you show the sources that debunks my second map. I never said it was impeccable, I only stated it was more reliable then the first. Its possible that the map you presented on post #77 is more accurate than this one, I never refuted that, I only want your evidence. Yet even that map is barely 8.5 million sq miles.
Stop fouling by convicting me disagree in the matter of Lake Balkan, I already stated that I have no disagreement toward that problem. It could be said nearly all Kazakhstan was under the control of the Turkic-Mongol Empire. Thus, if you want to NEGATE my source, prove them wrong!
Then what are you disagreeing about? My second map? First off I never stated my second map is absolutely correct, the point of me presenting the second map is to prove that there are more than one version of the map, and that the 11.8 sq mile figure you threw around is more consistent with the first map that I provided, which did include the Taiga.
Second of all, you stated my second map is wrong, but you have yet to provide a single source which proved that its wrong. My second map also showed that the Mongols controled the Irtysh as well as Sogdiana, so let me ask you again, where was my second map incorrect?
I am not the assertive side, it is you who start this discussion with the irrelevant Taiping Rebellion first, don't push your responsibility to me.
Umm no, the topic of this thread was the largest conflict. You didn't specify what you meant by it. Hence I brought up Tai Ping rebelion which was the most destructive conflict, hence the largest in that sense. It is not irrelevant to this topic.
Are you a robot? Are you a machine?
No, just someone with a much better grasp of geography than you as can be seen from your erroneous estimation below:
Russian territory alone is: 17,075,400, just divide this into 3 we already get: 5691800 sq miles, adding 2,669,800 of Kazakhstan, China total today area: 9,596,960 divided by 4 = 2999240, adding Iran area: 636,372 and Iraq: 172,742 = 12166466 sq mile, just roughly , sure that I don't "just" look at it, great look for your eyes, warhead
That was pitiful. If you want to estimate, the least you should do is get your measurements correct. It only makes your mockery sound frivolous. A geographer could tell the rough proximation of territories with their eyes precisely because they memorized the geographical size of every country in Asia already. You are obviously no geographer, thats why I told you to use a computor mapping program for starters. (I already have computor estimations that are far more accurate than yours, the comment on the eye was merely to show you how much more competent a more experienced geographer is than you. Yet you fatuously distorted it and used it as a weapon against me, how facetious.)
Russia is 17,075,400 sq km, not sq miles
. In terms of sq miles, its 6.6 million. Similarily China is roughly 3.7 million sq miles not 9,596,960.
The territory of the former Soviet Union is roughly 8,650,000 sq. miles. (22,400,000 sq. km.) Even by assuming that the Mongol empire controlled as much as half of the former Soviet Union using your map in post #77(yet by assuming it controlled as much as half of the Soviet Union is already exaggerating its size, since the Taiga biome makes up over 3/4 of the Soviet Union's territory. The nomads of Mongolia only used lake baikal, in the taiga itself, as a ground for retreat or exile throughout history, not as a pasture ground.) That would be around 4,300,000 sq miles, adding Iran's 636,372 sq miles , Iraq(which the Monol empire did not control all of, it stopped at the twin rivers), around 150,000 sq miles, China; 3.7 million sq miles,(and as I repeat again, the Mongols didn't control southern China when it was united) Korea, 87,000 sq miles, Mongolia, 600,000 sq miles, Afghanistan; 250,000 sq miles, Half of Pakistan; 150,000 square miles the total territory is roughly 9.8 million sq miles. And even that figure is an overestimate.
This estimation is closed to the rough one in Wiki, which is where you always guide me to, if I only take down to 11.86 million square kilometers, that is still reasonable. Remmeber divide them transversly, not longitudinally.
I guided to you to wiki, once, to show you why your source on Sogdiana was irrelevant to this thread.
You say JUST LOOK AT IT, very good action of a "professionl schollar", who would like to teach Geography. Even when look at the map without special technology, you do not know how to process the data as a Geographical Elementary Student, yet you still claim yourself as a "good grasp person"
Too big of a mouth could lead you to irrevocable consequences. Your estimation above was embarrassing.
Edited by warhead, 18 September 2007 - 11:10 PM.