28 replies to this topic

[caocao74]

To quote from Konstantin V. Asmolov's 'The System of Military Activity of Koguryo'

"Functional division in the Koguryo army was different from the Chines system.... The Chinese system was based on the soldier, equally skilled in all kinds of weaponry, while Koguryo units were divided according to major weapons: spearmen, axemen........ This specification allows us to analyze difficult tactical problems, considering the superiority of technique; for example, we are able to conclude that Koguryo's spearmen were better than the Chinese armed with the same weapon."

Firstly, is he correct that Chinese units were not assembled according to weapon-type?

Secondly, were Goguryeo's spearmen better than their Chinese counterparts due to the specialization in the weapon?

[General_Zhaoyun]

Firstly, is he correct that Chinese units were not assembled according to weapon-type?

In the 3 kingdoms ROTK show, I've seen most chinese units assembled according to weapon-type...for e.g. infantry armed with spears, archers armed with bows or "nu" etc..

[Kulong]

Sui & Tang Dynasties added together is about 500 years or so. I doubt that the Chinese military formation stayed static during those 5 centuries.

As for whether or not Koguryo spearmen are better than their Chinese counterpart, that's difficult to say. I'm sure the author just ASSUMED that they were because Koguryo soldiers were supposedly trained in specific weapons therefore must be experts at them. I don't think there is any way to know for sure.

[caocao74]

Sui & Tang Dynasties added together is about 500 years or so.  I doubt that the Chinese military formation stayed static during those 5 centuries.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry should have narrowed it down a tad. Asmolov deals primarily with the conflicts between 611 and the 660s.

[Kulong]

Sorry should have narrowed it down a tad.  Asmolov deals primarily with the conflicts between 611 and the 660s.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ah, that would make more sense.

[wuTao]

Did you get that quote from this article: http://www.kimsoft.c...ryoMilitary.htm ? It's an excellent and informative article in my opinion.

[caocao74]

Did you get that quote from this article: http://www.kimsoft.c...ryoMilitary.htm ? It's an excellent and informative article in my opinion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree. It's the same article, but I read it in a back-issue 'Korea Journal' of Summer 1992.

[TMPikachu]

I wouldn't say just because the Korean spearman only knew the use of the spear, that he would be better than a Chinese soldier with a spear. It could just mean Korea was unable to produce as many weapons as China for the individual soldier. How is this documented anyways, through pictures? Documents?

I've always thought that Chinese forces were organized by weapons type. I've heard of many forces though that had nearly all troops carry crossbows or bows, in addition to the polearms/swords they carried. A website called 'Kimsoft' might have a bias towards a certain country though...

[WangKon936]

I wouldn't say just because the Korean spearman only knew the use of the spear, that he would be better than a Chinese soldier with a spear. It could just mean Korea was unable to produce as many weapons as China for the individual soldier. How is this documented anyways, through pictures? Documents?

I've always thought that Chinese forces were organized by weapons type. I've heard of many forces though that had nearly all troops carry crossbows or bows, in addition to the polearms/swords they carried. A website called 'Kimsoft' might have a bias towards a certain country though...

That website DEFINATELY has bias'. The guy who runs it is a North Korean sympthizer. However, that article is not affiliated with the web site. It originally came out in Korea Journal in 1992 and written by a Russian scholar. You can also get it here: world.lib.ru/k/kim_o_i/ak9.shtml, a Russian site.

[Altaica Militarica]

I'm pretty sure he is wrong. Chinese soldiers were just as specialised as their Koguryo counterparts. According to "The army of Tang China" every soldier was trained in the use of the bow and the spear. With specialised units for other weapons.

Definitely Konstantin is a little bit wrong I know him very well and we have discussed the problem several times. He said he got a lot of new information and he did not stick to the previous opinion as firm as we think. The same is in respect of his old book "Weapons of East and West" - he changed his mind in respect of his early book too.

It is his early article and now he changed his mind greatly.

Sorry to say he has almost given up the military history of Korea and concentrated himself upon politology and he is writing a book about poilitical systems of North and South Korea both.

Best regards,

Alexey.

[Gubook Janggoon]

Hey Altaica Militarica,

Does Mr. Asmolov still hold the same views on the "Chumong" cult mentioned in his article? Also, do you have any more information on it?

Thanks

-GJ

[Altaica Militarica]

Does Mr. Asmolov still hold the same views on the "Chumong" cult mentioned in his article?
Also, do you have any more information on it?

Regarding the cult of Chumong - he thinks it was a man from nomadic tribe and the details of the myth are the traces of real events of that age. He traces some military peculiarities of the details (such as a bridge of turtles - he says it is a remnant of ancient skill to makebridges using shields and skin bags).

But he doesn't devote himself to that matter. So we have a specialist in Goguryeo history (especially in respect of ethnic hystory) - Mrs. Rose Sh. Jarylgasinova but I do not know her personally. She is over 60 and specializes in this theme since 1970-s.

Best regards,

Alexey.

[Gubook Janggoon]

Regarding the cult of Chumong - he thinks it was a man from nomadic tribe and the details of the myth are the traces of real events of that age. He traces some military peculiarities of the details (such as a bridge of turtles - he says it is a remnant of ancient skill to makebridges using shields and skin bags).

But he doesn't devote himself to that matter. So we have a specialist in Goguryeo history (especially in respect of ethnic hystory) - Mrs. Rose Sh. Jarylgasinova but I do not know her personally. She is over 60 and specializes in this theme since 1970-s.

Best regards,

Alexey.

Ah that is quite interesting. Thank you!