68 replies to this topic

[shawn]

What are the difference between Mongol warriors and Spartan warriors? Both lead equally harsh lives, etc. What made the Spartans die out but not the Mongols? What enabled the Mongols to conquer the world but not eh Spartans?

[Boleslaw I]

What are the difference between Mongol warriors and Spartan warriors? Both lead equally harsh lives, etc. What made the Spartans die out but not the Mongols? What enabled the Mongols to conquer the world but not eh Spartans?

The Spartans were supposed to be one of the finest infantry units in Ancient World. However, their number of men is extremely limited. Discipline is not what they lacked, they lacked unity. Also Greece had never been a unity. And as so many people maintained the traditional view toward Greek which presume that Spartans is the essence of Ancient warfare, this is completely wrong. The Corinthian Hoplites played equally role in defeating the Persia for instance

yes, the lack of unity is what impede the Spartan in particular, and the Greek in general, dominated their ancient world. Genghis Khan united all tribes in Mongolia, this is extremely important.

The invention of stirrups as well as the developement of bows and arrows, as well as siege warfare and technique that the Mongols learned from China and Muslim World really gave them the advantages over the Greek.

Those points are only very basic. I will return later since I am busy now.

[jebusrocks]

Sparta was always at war with another Greek State or other Euro countries, but Mongolia most of the stayed quite, and lived their lives as nomads, before Genghis Khan came in. After his fall, they once again, fell pretty quietly, waiting to be released...

[Boleslaw I]

Sparta was always at war with another Greek State or other Euro countries, but Mongolia most of the stayed quite, and lived their lives as nomads, before Genghis Khan came in. After his fall, they once again, fell pretty quietly, waiting to be released...

The Mongols could be said as a compound of nomadic army. Not only Mongols, but also Uygurs, Kipchaks participated in their army, recently even some Russians claim that the famous Cossacks also joined their army (Unthinkable ). Thus, it is quite daunting to dismantle these two groups.

[nee]

You can say the Spartans' style of warfare was limited- phalanx/hoplite warfare is great but it lacks the range power of cavalry.

Sparta had perfect spearmen
Mongols had perfect cavalry

If Sparta's tactics and strategies inlcuded cavalry/missile units then SParta would have steamrolled the mongols faster than Ghengis Khan can say "dayum thsoe Greeks are hardcore!"

[Yang Zongbao]

c**p. Not one of these again.

Makes me think of something I saw on a 300 video where someone asked if 300 Spartans could beat 300 Ninja (or was it Samurai?), a preposterous comparison because they didn't even exist in the same time period.

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[Zorigo]

Sparta was always at war with another Greek State or other Euro countries, but Mongolia most of the stayed quite, and lived their lives as nomads, before Genghis Khan came in.

well Mongols were not quite. The book "Secret Histrory of Mongols" clearly indicates that there were no peace and order in Steppe "There were no time to sleep, but fight"

If Mongols were living their simple nomad life happy and quite, there would not be any need of having Chinggis Khaan

[Dagvadorj]

I think it is because the Spartans were nude.

[General_Zhaoyun]

Spartans were infantry-based while Mongols were cavalry-based. In ancient warfare, cavalry usually had superior advantage against the infantry, due to their mobility, speed and the ability to strike with shock, easier manoeuvre. That's why such a small army of Mongols can conquer half of the world at that time.

[世中豪杰]

The Mongols are very well trained in military.
guys are either normad farmers or soldiers if not hunters.

girls are more educated than the guys in comparison.

as per what i understand, as long as a boy is already able to walk, he will have to learn horse riding.
so basically their lives is all about horse riding, archery, & mongol wrestling.

you can basically expect them to be experts by the time they grew up under such trainnings at a tender age.

also Mongols tradditionally always move house. their house is never fixed at a single place.
hence as another result, it turn them into people with absolute stong adeaptablily, fliexibility & strong survival skills & abilities which are better & faster than others.

they are also a very united group of people. people within their own tribes have strong unity.
they have several codes of principles & discipline among themselves.

[DurstigerMann]

Spartans were infantry-based while Mongols were cavalry-based. In ancient warfare, cavalry usually had superior advantage against the infantry, due to their mobility, speed and the ability to strike with shock, easier manoeuvre. That's why such a small army of Mongols can conquer half of the world at that time.

Yep. And on top of that the phalanx was very vulnerable against mobile cavalry and powerful ranged attacks.

Also, discipline is the last thing any group of men lacks who manages to hold up a phalanx during combat.

[Wan Ren aka Danny]

Yep. And on top of that the phalanx was very vulnerable against mobile cavalry and powerful ranged attacks.

Also, discipline is the last thing any group of men lacks who manages to hold up a phalanx during combat.

Both are great ancient warriors, but as stated by many Sparta failed to to expand. The Mongols IMO are better tactician.

The Phalanx formation of the Spartans at Thermophylea were the Persians were so stupid to charge head on on a well protected narrow past was poor stradegy.

Even without going around the the Spartans, the Phalanx formation could have been broken with the use of spear hook or chain hook. ( I believe that during that time period Chinese soldiers were already using hook spear or hook trident). Pulling down the shields follow up with archers and long hook spear to sweep at the feet of the Spartan soldiers which are vulnerable because the Spartans were using round shields. Round shields are not as good as the rectangular shield that were used by ancient Chinese army and the Roman army.

I think that the Persian army were very poor warriors and were led very poorly.

[Suren911]

A big difference between Spartan and Mongol warriors is the whole practice of homosexuality. Spartans send their boys to a grown man's household to learn about fighting when they're 14 years of age in exchange for their manual labor and sexual favors. Don't believe me? Look it up. Homosexuality was not practiced among Mongols. And I'm glad.

[Zorigo]

Fragments of the Great Yasa of Chingis Khan which have come down to us through Makrizi:
2. Whoever is guilty of sodomy is also to be put to death.

[JiG]

A big difference between Spartan and Mongol warriors is the whole practice of homosexuality. Spartans send their boys to a grown man's household to learn about fighting when they're 14 years of age in exchange for their manual labor and sexual favors. Don't believe me? Look it up. Homosexuality was not practiced among Mongols. And I'm glad.

Yea, this was not only Spartan culture or only confined to military teaching relationships either. Ancient Greeks in general practiced this "pederasty" as a teacher student relationship. It didn't always involve sex though.

In fact, Alexander the Great's army and the Carthaginian army both included the practice of homosexuality within their army as a means of creating closer ties to one another thus in theory making them fight stronger at each others sides. These specialized military units were known as the "Sacred Band".

The Mongol army in comparison created a system of companionship within their military ranks by breaking down their larger military divisions into small group of 10 called Arbans where members of each Arban were told to look out for one another on the battlefield. If a group had ever left a fellow member on the battlefield or strayed away from each other, then a harsh punishment would be given. Most likely death since Genghis Khan's laws were very harsh. There was also many other laws the Mongols had that Genghis had created in the Yasa to further bring Mongol soldiers and Mongol society in general closer like making it a crime to ever refuse food to another Mongol.