7 replies to this topic

[shunyadragon]

I spent ~9 1/2 years in China involved in a personal study of Jade and Jade Culture. I am a retired Geologist, and one of my interests is the sources of nephrite and to a lesser extent jadite used in Neolithic Cultures. I am also interested in developing a cooperate project to identify the unique properties of nephrite jade from the different sites using non-destructive testing and comparing the results to ancient carvings.
The following is one list from (Mineralogical Inquiries into Neolithic Jade by zhichun Jing and Guang Wen 1996 in The Journal of Chinese Jade.) with my added comments about the site or region.

Fengtian in Taiwan - Visited Taiwan and source site. This nephrite is somewhat brightly colored like jadeite, and more brittle than most nephrites, Deposits also include 'tiger-eye' nephrite. Used in Neolithic by local cultures, and rediscovered for commercial use in the last 50 years. No known use of this nephrite in mainland Neolithic Cultures.

Kuandian in Liaoning Province - Visited site site several times, but i have never found nor seen nephrite from this site except for possibly Neolithic carvings on display. I found the Blueschist formation suitable for nephrite outcroping in places along the stream channels. The formations above this are where the bowenite is found in the mountains. The bowenite is mostly in small to quit large intrusive bodies that sometimes resmble hot-air ballons. I have sampled several of the bowenite sources. This is a likely source of the Neolithic nephrite carvings in the area, but it is a very limited source.

Chunchun in Korea - This site is known for a local source of nephrite, but as far as I know it was not used in China. I have seen white nephrite from this site.

Xiaomingling, Liyang in Jiangsu Province - An early Neolithic source of nephrite for the Neolithic Cultures of the lower Yangze and Huang He river valleys. I visited the area and found the appropriate bedrock for nephrite. This site has been mined out long ago, and local sources indicate that very little nephrite has been found in recent years.

Wenchuan in Sichuan - Visited the area and found the appropriate bedrock for nephrite. I saw samples on display, but this site is a very limited potential source.

Tianshan in Xinjiang - Visited Xinjiang several times, but not this site, because I did not know it was a potential site for nephrite at the time.

Kunlun Shan in Xinjiang - Visted the mountains several times and the mines, wonderful trip collecting jade.

Xichuan in Henan - Visited the area, but did not care for the bedrock I saw, and did not see any stones claimed to be from here. Limited experience here would have to sum upas no comment. On one of the Jade-Silk Road routes.


Sites not on this list

Northeast Heilongjiang - Personal Interview with Yang Boda who visited the area and attested it is a source of Nephrite and it was used locally in Neolithic times. Probably roughly corresponds geologically to the sources in Siberia.

Golmud in Qinghai Province - Have not visited site, but discussed this site with Yang Boda. This is about the western extent of similar geologic formations as Kunlun Shan. On one of the Jade-Silk Road routes.

Taihujan and Mao Shan in Jurong County - I have not been to this site, but discussed it with Yang Boda. On one of the Jade-Silk Road routes.

Burma (Myanmar) is the primary historical source of the best quality jadeite in Chinese history. Some decorative carvings, but no ceremonial carvings have been found as early or earlier than the Han Dynasty in tombs in Southern China, but there was apparently little interet in jadeite in China until it became a the fashionable pseudojade for the wealthy class of the Qing Dynasty. No nephrite has ever been found in Burma, besides wrong geology.

There are lots of rumors of jade found all over China, especially Yunnan, but no these sites are about all there is.

There are several sites for both Nephrite and Jadeite in Siberia north of China. There is evidence that some jade from these sites was used in China in the Qing. There is also evidence of Late Neolithic and Early Bronze Age contact of Chinese Neolithic cultures in this region, particularly around Baikal Lake, but no known use of these stones in China.

There are deposits of poor quality deposites of jadeite and nephrite found in Japan and used by the Jomon Culture, but the colors and texture are inferior and they are somewhat more brittle than the better msinlsnd Asian sources.

[shunyadragon]

I spent ~9 1/2 years in China involved in a personal study of Jade and Jade Culture. I am a retired Geologist, and one of my interests is the sources of nephrite and to a lesser extent jadite used in Neolithic Cultures. I am also interested in developing a cooperate project to identify the unique properties of nephrite jade from the different sites using non-destructive testing and comparing the results to ancient carvings.
The following is one list from (Mineralogical Inquiries into Neolithic Jade by zhichun Jing and Guang Wen 1996 in The Journal of Chinese Jade.) with my added comments about the site or region.

Fengtian in Taiwan - Visited Taiwan and source site. This nephrite is somewhat brightly colored like jadeite, and more brittle than most nephrites, Deposits also include 'tiger-eye' nephrite. Used in Neolithic by local cultures, and rediscovered for commercial use in the last 50 years. No known use of this nephrite in mainland Neolithic Cultures.

Kuandian in Liaoning Province - Visited site site several times, but i have never found nor seen nephrite from this site except for possibly Neolithic carvings on display. I found the Blueschist formation suitable for nephrite outcroping in places along the stream channels. The formations above this are where the bowenite is found in the mountains. The bowenite is mostly in small to quit large intrusive bodies that sometimes resmble hot-air ballons. I have sampled several of the bowenite sources. This is a likely source of the Neolithic nephrite carvings in the area, but it is a very limited source.

Chunchun in Korea - This site is known for a local source of nephrite, but as far as I know it was not used in China. I have seen white nephrite from this site.

Xiaomingling, Liyang in Jiangsu Province - An early Neolithic source of nephrite for the Neolithic Cultures of the lower Yangze and Huang He river valleys. I visited the area and found the appropriate bedrock for nephrite. This site has been mined out long ago, and local sources indicate that very little nephrite has been found in recent years.

Wenchuan in Sichuan - Visited the area and found the appropriate bedrock for nephrite. I saw samples on display, but this site is a very limited potential source.

Tianshan in Xinjiang - Visited Xinjiang several times, but not this site, because I did not know it was a potential site for nephrite at the time.

Kunlun Shan in Xinjiang - Visted the mountains several times and the mines, wonderful trip collecting jade.

Xichuan in Henan - Visited the area, but did not care for the bedrock I saw, and did not see any stones claimed to be from here. Limited experience here would have to sum upas no comment. On one of the Jade-Silk Road routes.
Sites not on this list

Northeast Heilongjiang - Personal Interview with Yang Boda who visited the area and attested it is a source of Nephrite and it was used locally in Neolithic times. Probably roughly corresponds geologically to the sources in Siberia.

Golmud in Qinghai Province - Have not visited site, but discussed this site with Yang Boda. This is about the western extent of similar geologic formations as Kunlun Shan. On one of the Jade-Silk Road routes.

Taihujan and Mao Shan in Jurong County - I have not been to this site, but discussed it with Yang Boda. On one of the Jade-Silk Road routes.

Burma (Myanmar) is the primary historical source of the best quality jadeite in Chinese history. Some decorative carvings, but no ceremonial carvings have been found as early or earlier than the Han Dynasty in tombs in Southern China, but there was apparently little interet in jadeite in China until it became a the fashionable pseudojade for the wealthy class of the Qing Dynasty. No nephrite has ever been found in Burma, besides wrong geology.

There are lots of rumors of jade found all over China, especially Yunnan, but no these sites are about all there is.

There are several sites for both Nephrite and Jadeite in Siberia north of China. There is evidence that some jade from these sites was used in China in the Qing. There is also evidence of Late Neolithic and Early Bronze Age contact of Chinese Neolithic cultures in this region, particularly around Baikal Lake, but no known use of these stones in China.

There are deposits of poor quality deposites of jadeite and nephrite found in Japan and used by the Jomon Culture, but the colors and texture are inferior and they are somewhat more brittle than the better msinlsnd Asian sources.

I found two more sites in China of possibly very limited source of Nephrite. I have not visited these sites. They were referred to as 'very limited possible sources' in a personal interview with Yang boda.

Gansu Province south of Lanzhou and around Yuzhongxian and northeast of Chendu

[Kenneth]

Lake Baikal, in modern Russia, I have heard mentioned as a source of nephrite used in the HongShan jade culture.
Nephrite could well be traded from afar afield as Siberia into the northern zone of China.
http://www.bww.irk.r...rchaeology.html

"Numerous neolithic and aeneolithic burials contain a rich variety of funeral implements. Things made of Sayan nephrite that are discovered in Pribaikalye and the Amur basin contribute to the intercommune exchange that was well developed in the VI-II thousand years B. C."

Can you confirm this was a source used by the HongShan also?

[shunyadragon]

Lake Baikal, in modern Russia, I have heard mentioned as a source of nephrite used in the HongShan jade culture.
Nephrite could well be traded from afar afield as Siberia into the northern zone of China.
http://www.bww.irk.r...rchaeology.html

Can you confirm this was a source used by the HongShan also?

The only confirmation I have in my review of literature in Chinese is that Neolithic Cultures in Northern Heilongjiang used nephrite for beads and tools from the region (older than Hogshan Culture.), but do not know if this includes the Heilongjiang source or the the Siberian sources. Jade ed, by Keverne cites Chinese ceremonial artifacts (nephrite?) like the bi found in graves on an Island in Lake Baikal (I think it was on the island.) Judging from the reference these artifacts were more like the Erlitou and Dawenkou Neolithic Cultures than the Hongshan.

I would like to find more sources on this, and do cooperative work to improve the characterization of nephrite and jadeite sources from a mineralogical and geologic perspective. I would like to get off the poor academic undocumented rumors of 'reported sources' of nephrite for use by different cultures. One problem I had in china was a cloak of polite subtle lack of cooperation and official secrecy for everything when pursuing my personal research, because I was not affiliated with a university or other institution. Even if I was I would have been likely herded around by officials in a 'cloistered sheep herd' anyway from what I saw how foreign experts were treated. When i first went in the 1990s it was not so bad, but over time the official screws progressively tightened.

Edited by shunyadragon, 03 October 2007 - 04:30 PM.

[Kenneth]

If the source was there, certainly the Inner Mongolia jade centres were in proximity to recieve this stone through trade (from Lake Baikal). It might be worth bearing in mind because there should be something to the comments I heard via jade collectors, even if hearsay untill positively confirmed.

Another to be added to the list too;
An external source of jade related to provincial/'minority' jade cultures is the nephrite of Vietnam, which as part of the Dong Son cultural sphere appears to have been worked by the same Sino-Viet culture in Yunnan.
(Recent discussions have provided some more details on this.)
Exploitation of 'local' nephrite by southeast asian jade workers mean another geological source worked within the modern borders of 'China'. The industry here seem signifigant even if not so celebrated.

Posted on Dong Son jade thread;

"Both Nephrite and Jadeite mines could be found in Northern Vietnam (Son La province) as well as other corundum mines (compatible gem quality to that of Burma);....ancient Vietnamese...mined and used nephrites for ornamental purposes (1400-1000 BC). Ancient jade (nephrite) ornaments were found at a production center recently excavated at Trang Kenh (Hai Phong). In Central Vietnam, the ancient Sa-Huynh people also created nephrite ornaments and beads as well as glasses which left their marks throughout Southeast Asia (from Thailand through the Philippines penisula)."

[shunyadragon]

If the source was there, certainly the Inner Mongolia jade centres were in proximity to recieve this stone through trade (from Lake Baikal). It might be worth bearing in mind because there should be something to the comments I heard via jade collectors, even if hearsay untill positively confirmed.

Another to be added to the list too;
An external source of jade related to provincial/'minority' jade cultures is the nephrite of Vietnam, which as part of the Dong Son cultural sphere appears to have been worked by the same Sino-Viet culture in Yunnan.
(Recent discussions have provided some more details on this.)
Exploitation of 'local' nephrite by southeast asian jade workers mean another geological source worked within the modern borders of 'China'. The industry here seem signifigant even if not so celebrated.

Posted on Dong Son jade thread;

I have already added this source, and posted a reference to publication in that thread that documents two sources of nephrite and jadeite in Vietnam,

[Kenneth]

It was not updated on this thread. I don't see it added anywhere.

I don't expect you posted this 'nephrite source list' with the idea there should be no further comment on it.
Any additions are quite relevent if this is attempting to be comprehensive.

To be fair, the publication you mention above was only added after a google search for a nephrite source you were presumably unaware of inside of 24 hours ago.
i.e; As you responded to the above information;

"Very interesting. Your reference to nephrite and jadeite from Vietnam inspired me to make an net search and found this:

Gemstones in Vietnam, A review by Pham Van Long1, Gaston Giuliani2, Virginie Garnier3, Daniel Ohnenstetter3
Reprinted from The Australian Gemmologist
Volume 22, Number 4, October–December 2004

This gives support for the argument that Vietnam itself is the source of the nephrite for the Neolithic Cultures."

Earlier on the thread my interest in this had been prompted as you said had said;

"The problem with this is there are not any potential sources of nephrite in Southeast Asia, or South China, even Yunnan, because they lack the Blue Schist formations necessary for nephrite."

This was a good line of enquiry as I had not put in a great deal of thought as to precise localities of origin.
It appears we have both benefited from this.

I had wondered whether the nephrite source Prof. Dung refered to as 'local' & worked by Dong Son artisans was in fact inside Viet Nam rather than Yunnan.
Such an origin is still inside the conceptual 'Dong Son cultural sphere' or the even 'Yunnan cultural sphere' as some term the Sino-Viet culture in ancient Yunnan and north Vietnam.

Edited by Kenneth, 05 October 2007 - 01:44 AM.

[shunyadragon]

I spent ~9 1/2 years in China involved in a personal study of Jade and Jade Culture. I am a retired Geologist, and one of my interests is the sources of nephrite and to a lesser extent jadite used in Neolithic Cultures. I am also interested in developing a cooperate project to identify the unique properties of nephrite jade from the different sites using non-destructive testing and comparing the results to ancient carvings.
The following is one list from (Mineralogical Inquiries into Neolithic Jade by zhichun Jing and Guang Wen 1996 in The Journal of Chinese Jade.) with my added comments about the site or region.

Golmud in Qinghai Province - Have not visited site, but discussed this site with Yang Boda. This is about the western extent of similar geologic formations as Kunlun Shan. On one of the Jade-Silk Road routes.

I am particularly interested in more information from this site, because Qinghai Province donated the jade for the 2008 Olympic medals. The articles site Ge'ermu City, as the source. Is this the same city as Golmud? In previous references Qinghai was not recognized as having large deposits of high quality nephrite jade, but recently carvings of apparently high quality jade are appearing, and now the donated jade for the 2008 Olympic medals.

I would be interested in knowing what the Chinese charactors for the location, and if these two names are the same city. Ge'ermu sounds like an ethnic name for a city.