32 replies to this topic

[kaiselin]

sorry for the quality of this one. I had to be creative in getting this one. the file would not open to my pictures, so I copied it, printed it and scanned it to get it into my picture file.
I think it was worth it though.

Frogs leaping into container

[sylvester]

did you notes that all 3 picture you show have a common point?
on the back of the frog, have many "dots", it is forg's egg!
some knid of frogs carries their eegs till they hatch, it surprise the ancient chinese.

[kaiselin]

did you notes that all 3 picture you show have a common point?
on the back of the frog, have many "dots", it is forg's egg!
some knid of frogs carries their eegs till they hatch, it surprise the ancient chinese.

Yes, I had noticed that.
I also noticed that the site that I found these pictures although they are all from a museum, two are called toads.
I am not an expert on the differences between toads and frogs, but most toads have warts / bumps on their backs. Some frogs have bright colored spots and markings on their backs .

I also have never seen or heard of frogs carrying the eggs on their backs. I am not saying you are wrong, maybe you are talking about a different species from China, But, all the frogs I know of deposit their thousands of eggs in water around the edges of still ponds and then leave.
I have seen the bubbly masses attached to pond plants and floating grass many times in the spring and watched in fascination as each day you can see the egg develop into a tadpole.

[sylvester]

http://baike.baidu.com/view/125231.htm

[kaiselin]

http://baike.baidu.com/view/125231.htm

Is it a toad or a frog? I tried to translate and the character ... it is either one.

[aiaia]

did you notes that all 3 picture you show have a common point?
on the back of the frog, have many "dots", it is forg's egg!
some knid of frogs carries their eegs till they hatch, it surprise the ancient chinese.

I think this eggs-carrying-toad is a special specie. Usually those "dots" are poisonous warts which you can find on the back of any toad.

Britannica Concise Encyclopedia
toad
Any member of 26 genera (order Anura) of mainly terrestrial, nocturnal, tailless amphibians. Toads have a squat body, short legs, external fertilization, and teeth in the upper jaw. They eat insects or small animals. The more than 300 species of true toads (Bufo) are found almost worldwide. They are 1 – 10 in. (2 – 25 cm) long and have thick, dry, often warty skin. Poison secreted by glands on the back and warts irritates the eyes and mucous membranes of predators. Some species' poison can paralyze or kill animals as large as dogs, but toads do not cause warts. Toads reproduce by laying in water two long jelly tubes containing 600 – 30,000 eggs. The genus Nectophrynoides contains the only anurans that bear live young. See also frog, horned toad.

Columbia Encyclopedia
toad, name applied to certain members of the amphibian order Anura, which also includes the frog. Although there is no clear-cut distinction between toads and frogs, the name toad commonly refers to those species that have relatively short legs, stout bodies, and thick skins, and are less aquatic as adults than the long-legged, slender-bodied frogs. Sometimes the term is restricted to the so-called true toads, members of the family Bufonidae. These are characterized by warty skins and prominent parotid glands behind the eyes and as a group are the most terrestrial of the order. In most the feet are only slightly webbed. .....

Also see here
http://www.zdic.net/...dic9FZdicBE.htm

Edited by aiaia, 15 November 2007 - 11:33 PM.

[kaiselin]

I think this eggs-carrying-toad is a special specie. Usually those "dots" are poisonous warts which you can find on the back of any toad.

Britannica Concise Encyclopedia
toad
Any member of 26 genera (order Anura) of mainly terrestrial, nocturnal, tailless amphibians. Toads have a squat body, short legs, external fertilization, and teeth in the upper jaw. They eat insects or small animals. The more than 300 species of true toads (Bufo) are found almost worldwide. They are 1 – 10 in. (2 – 25 cm) long and have thick, dry, often warty skin. Poison secreted by glands on the back and warts irritates the eyes and mucous membranes of predators. Some species' poison can paralyze or kill animals as large as dogs, but toads do not cause warts. Toads reproduce by laying in water two long jelly tubes containing 600 – 30,000 eggs. The genus Nectophrynoides contains the only anurans that bear live young. See also frog, horned toad.

Columbia Encyclopedia
toad, name applied to certain members of the amphibian order Anura, which also includes the frog. Although there is no clear-cut distinction between toads and frogs, the name toad commonly refers to those species that have relatively short legs, stout bodies, and thick skins, and are less aquatic as adults than the long-legged, slender-bodied frogs. Sometimes the term is restricted to the so-called true toads, members of the family Bufonidae. These are characterized by warty skins and prominent parotid glands behind the eyes and as a group are the most terrestrial of the order. In most the feet are only slightly webbed. .....

Also see here
http://www.zdic.net/...dic9FZdicBE.htm

So all frogs are toads, but not all toads are frogs. I thought the difference was frogs were aquatic, and frogs lived on land.

[fireball]

frog, is one of the original form of chinese dragon(chinese dragon is a mix image of many kinds of animals),
for really ancient time, peoples living on the land of china believe frog holding a superme power of breeding.
many pottery have forg drawings and frog should be a totem at that time.

frog lead many eggs, and some frog would carry their young for few days or weeks, so it make ancient chinese people think about the breeding power.

frog in chinese is 蛙, the sound is same as 娃,
and 女娃(or some said 女媧) is the one who creates human in chinese myth.
蛙 is the same sound of 瓜 at ancient time too, 瓜 in english... just some creeping plant bearing large edible fruit or the fruit (some of which are considered vegetables), including melon, squash, cucumber, etc...
a printing of 瓜 in house is a wish of having many offsprings, it connets with breeding too!

I read about that also. The book I read said that the the goddess 女媧 (nuwa) may have started out as the frog 蛙 (wa).

[sylvester]

I think this eggs-carrying-toad is a special specie. Usually those "dots" are poisonous warts which you can find on the back of any toad.

Britannica Concise Encyclopedia
toad
Any member of 26 genera (order Anura) of mainly terrestrial, nocturnal, tailless amphibians. Toads have a squat body, short legs, external fertilization, and teeth in the upper jaw. They eat insects or small animals. The more than 300 species of true toads (Bufo) are found almost worldwide. They are 1 – 10 in. (2 – 25 cm) long and have thick, dry, often warty skin. Poison secreted by glands on the back and warts irritates the eyes and mucous membranes of predators. Some species' poison can paralyze or kill animals as large as dogs, but toads do not cause warts. Toads reproduce by laying in water two long jelly tubes containing 600 – 30,000 eggs. The genus Nectophrynoides contains the only anurans that bear live young. See also frog, horned toad.

Columbia Encyclopedia
toad, name applied to certain members of the amphibian order Anura, which also includes the frog. Although there is no clear-cut distinction between toads and frogs, the name toad commonly refers to those species that have relatively short legs, stout bodies, and thick skins, and are less aquatic as adults than the long-legged, slender-bodied frogs. Sometimes the term is restricted to the so-called true toads, members of the family Bufonidae. These are characterized by warty skins and prominent parotid glands behind the eyes and as a group are the most terrestrial of the order. In most the feet are only slightly webbed. .....

Also see here
http://www.zdic.net/...dic9FZdicBE.htm

i am not sure if that 3 are frog or toad... but i think Poisonious thing dont worth a jade to carving it.
and a forg on lotus leaf is obviously imply the wish to having many offspring 連(蓮)生貴子.

[sylvester]

I think this eggs-carrying-toad is a special specie. Usually those "dots" are poisonous warts which you can find on the back of any toad.

Britannica Concise Encyclopedia
toad
Any member of 26 genera (order Anura) of mainly terrestrial, nocturnal, tailless amphibians. Toads have a squat body, short legs, external fertilization, and teeth in the upper jaw. They eat insects or small animals. The more than 300 species of true toads (Bufo) are found almost worldwide. They are 1 – 10 in. (2 – 25 cm) long and have thick, dry, often warty skin. Poison secreted by glands on the back and warts irritates the eyes and mucous membranes of predators. Some species' poison can paralyze or kill animals as large as dogs, but toads do not cause warts. Toads reproduce by laying in water two long jelly tubes containing 600 – 30,000 eggs. The genus Nectophrynoides contains the only anurans that bear live young. See also frog, horned toad.

Columbia Encyclopedia
toad, name applied to certain members of the amphibian order Anura, which also includes the frog. Although there is no clear-cut distinction between toads and frogs, the name toad commonly refers to those species that have relatively short legs, stout bodies, and thick skins, and are less aquatic as adults than the long-legged, slender-bodied frogs. Sometimes the term is restricted to the so-called true toads, members of the family Bufonidae. These are characterized by warty skins and prominent parotid glands behind the eyes and as a group are the most terrestrial of the order. In most the feet are only slightly webbed. .....

Also see here
http://www.zdic.net/...dic9FZdicBE.htm

the url u show said TOAD = 蟾蜍, so FROG = 青蛙.
蟾蜍 have some bad side meaning in chinese culture, it is not a honorable creacture.
in some chinese shop or house, you may find a small ornament that look like a toad with a gold/slive coin in it's month,
some ppl believe that ornament can may money come to his shop or house, and wont go away again,
that toad imply "有入無出" (just input, have no output).
in chinese culture, it is not encourage to act like this,
if you want money, then you sholud work harder, but not place an evil toad to suck money to you.

also, the woman on the moon called 嫦娥 is a toad...
in story, 嫦娥 stolen the every life medicine from his husband 后羿,
she dont know that medicine had been cursed by 西王母 that whom eat the medicine must not lies.
steal things is a kind of lies.
so after she eat that medicine, she become a toad, and fly to the moon(yes, to the moon is part of curse, not 嫦娥's wants).

in empire age, chinese ppl congratulate 狀元 will said "蟾宮折桂，恭喜！恭喜！"
狀元 is the one who get highest mark in the civil examination, the number one in grade A (the number two in Grade A is called 榜眼, and number three in Grade A is探花)
蟾宮 means "the palace where the toad live in", that the moon!
折 means "cut down"
桂 means a tree in the moon (there's another story about 吳剛, the man who cutting the tree at the moon... its too long to type@@)
恭喜 means congratulations.
so 蟾宮折桂 means "you got the tree from moon!", imply the most difficulty.
the difficulty to become 狀元 really match the difficulty to get the tree on the moon cut off!

Edited by sylvester, 16 November 2007 - 01:22 AM.

[sylvester]

I read about that also. The book I read said that the the goddess 女媧 (nuwa) may have started out as the frog 蛙 (wa).

woo... you have read about this too...
you really read many about chinese
most of chinese dont even heard about that

[sylvester]

So all frogs are toads, but not all toads are frogs. I thought the difference was frogs were aquatic, and frogs lived on land.

i think the opposit

[fireball]

Toads? Frogs? Did I mention I flunked my biology classes. I really can't tell the differences, and I don't want to!

The only intimate contact I had with toads/frogs were the times I flatten them in my Junior High School Physical Education fields and the one time I ordered the Vietnamese Curry Frog I mentioned about in another posting. They were not happy memories.

[kaiselin]

the url u show said TOAD = 蟾蜍, so FROG = 青蛙.
蟾蜍 have some bad side meaning in chinese culture, it is not a honorable creacture.
in some chinese shop or house, you may find a small ornament that look like a toad with a gold/slive coin in it's month,
some ppl believe that ornament can may money come to his shop or house, and wont go away again,
that toad imply "有入無出" (just input, have no output).
in chinese culture, it is not encourage to act like this,
if you want money, then you sholud work harder, but not place an evil toad to suck money to you.

also, the woman on the moon called 嫦娥 is a toad...
in story, 嫦娥 stolen the every life medicine from his husband 后羿,
she dont know that medicine had been cursed by 西王母 that whom eat the medicine must not lies.
steal things is a kind of lies.
so after she eat that medicine, she become a toad, and fly to the moon(yes, to the moon is part of curse, not 嫦娥's wants).

in empire age, chinese ppl congratulate 狀元 will said "蟾宮折桂，恭喜！恭喜！"
狀元 is the one who get highest mark in the civil examination, the number one in grade A (the number two in Grade A is called 榜眼, and number three in Grade A is探花)
蟾宮 means "the palace where the toad live in", that the moon!
折 means "cut down"
桂 means a tree in the moon (there's another story about 吳剛, the man who cutting the tree at the moon... its too long to type@@)
恭喜 means congratulations.
so 蟾宮折桂 means "you got the tree from moon!", imply the most difficulty.
the difficulty to become 狀元 really match the difficulty to get the tree on the moon cut off!

Nice explanation.
I had never heard the part about the ChangE being a toad.
I had read that cinnamon trees grow on the moon and that the hare on the moon cuts them down every day.
But I had never heard the expression 蟾宮折桂/ "you got the tree from moon!".
Thanks!!!

[fireball]

There was also the idea that if Wu Gang 吳剛 ever truly chopped down the tree on the moon, there would be great disasters on earth, like earthquakes, floods, etc.

The explanation of Chang E's curse I have read was that she was cursed because she betrayed her husband (or she was not loyal to her husband) by stealing the medicine.

There was also a folk lore that we should not point at the moon. If someone pointed at the moon, he/she would offend the Yue niang niang (the Royal Lady of Moon) and she would come down at night to cut off the person's ears. I was told that cutting off the persons ears was related to certain skin infections at the back of the ears (where ears connected to the head) -- It looks like someone tries to cut off the person's ears. I was jumped on by others too much everytime I pointed at the moon in childhood. Now, whenever I pointed at moon, I would automatically move my other hand to cover my pointing finger almost immediately. Did you hear about this folk lore? I am not sure where it came from?