58 replies to this topic

[Ashura]

Yeah, peasant, merchants, ex-nobles, farmers............all of them, I guess.

Why and how did a peasant came into a copy? and could he recognize the value of it?

Merchants might have some copies but due to the spread of literacy, chances are not many would have them.

Ex-nobles and nobles alike would be the first target of the confiscation, wouldn't they?

Edited by Ashura, 20 November 2007 - 03:54 AM.

[Ashura]

Ok, let's just say that we don't really know. That would be the best answer. However, in my opinion, some peasants can read.

I think you are right on the fact that ex-nobles and nobles alike would be the first target of teh confiscation as they will be mostly literate.

Some as in how many? Considering the cost of the books, the learning, the materials, the opportunity cost, chances are really low for peasants be able to read. Let's say that 10% of the peasants were able to read, then it was even less likely for them to access to a book. let's say 5 of the 10% had access to books, then it was even less likey for them to get hold of one. Let's say 1% got hold of a book, would they had kept the books once the decree was issued?

Consider it took lots and lots of money to learn how to read, wouldn't people consider the cost of their lives vis-a-vis to that of a book when the decree was issued? Qin law was infamously strict. Would people of lower status in the society risk their lives to preserve the said books? Most likely they would turn in the books willingly.

People who withheld the books were mostly ex-nobles whose states were conquerd by Qin and that they were not Qin's supportors. Withholding a book is like withholding a Masamune sword during Tokugawa's reign, a symbolism. All in all, the chances for the ancient books, subjected to confication, to survive in originality were really low.

[Ashura]

Ok, please don't torture me until so hard, I'm still a kid. You win.

Being a kid, I still have a lot of learn, I'm not as good as you, Ashura.

Lol, I wasn't trying to torture (but to grill you maybe).

Since you are learning, you need to learn how to formulate a creditable hyopthesis. And since you are learning, I expect that you are throwng things out to be corrected, am I right?

[Mok]

That's the spirit, Liu Bang my lad. Never let learning or correction scare you off. God knows I had plenty of that too, in my time.

[fcharton]

Yes, it is true, but I think some copies were also hidden and owned by the commoners.

Yes, most certainly. The fact that the destruction of books was not very successful is proven by the many pre-Qin books which were transmitted to us (most philosophers in fact). As litteracy was low in ancient times, as copying books was a long and painful process, and as the establishment of Qin dynasty followed a long series of wars and destructions, it seems likely that there were not many copies of each book by the time of Qin Shihuang. That so many books survived prove that the burning of books was probably not very efficient.

Personally, I tend to see it more as a symbolic gesture, which was then hyped by Western Han authors, than a real policy, just like collecting all weapons to forge those big statues which the Guoqinlun tells us of... (oh, btw, anyone knows where and how exactly the burning of books is described? is it the Shiji? or just the Guoqinlun quote in it?)

Francois

Edited by fcharton, 23 November 2007 - 04:44 AM.

[Mok]

A plain "Mok" would do.

Hehe, you're a great kid, Liu Bang, and I don't give out such compliments easily.

If only every 12 year old had your sort of attitude...we'd have less upstarts here on CHF trying to bang their own gong.

Take care my lad, don't forget to take lots of pics on your trip!

[Sparhawk]

Hehe, you're a great kid, Liu Bang, and I don't give out such compliments easily.

If only every 12 year old had your sort of attitude...we'd have less upstarts here on CHF trying to bang their own gong.

LOL!! I have a 13 year old daughter that could learn some manners from Liu Bang here... (I've been trying my best, I swear!!)

[Mok]

LOL!! I have a 13 year old daughter that could learn some manners from Liu Bang here... (I've been trying my best, I swear!!)

A little discipline did me a world of good.

[Sparhawk]

A little discipline did me a world of good.

Yeah! I should try that... Never crossed my mind before... LOL!

[kaiselin]

A little discipline did me a world of good.

Sounds like Mok is looking for a spanking!!!!