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Roman soldiers settled in Han China?


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#61 Yun

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Posted 11 May 2008 - 12:57 AM

There on the last of the grasslands, they were attacked by the armies of Gengis Khan


According to the expert Chinese dynasty reign chart on this web-site; that would put the Romans making it to China during the Eastern Han Dynasty.


I am somewhat bemused by these parallel claims, since Genghis Khan lived about a thousand years after the Eastern Han dynasty ended (in AD 220).

Historical fiction, that novel clearly is (although I wonder if 'historical' should even be used so liberally); "well-researched", I very much doubt.
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#62 Sanbao

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Posted 18 August 2009 - 07:02 PM

Take a look, quite interesting!!
http://www.telegraph...d-in-China.html

Roman descendants found in China?

Residents of a remote Chinese village are hoping that DNA tests will prove one of history's most unlikely legends — that they are descended from Roman legionaries lost in antiquity.
Scientists have taken blood samples from 93 people living in and around Liqian, a settlement in north-western China on the fringes of the Gobi desert, more than 200 miles from the nearest city.

They are seeking an explanation for the unusual number of local people with western characteristics — green eyes, big noses, and even blonde hair — mixed with traditional Chinese features.

"I really think we are descended from the Romans," said Song Guorong, 48, who with his wavy hair, six-foot frame and strikingly long, hooked nose stands out from his short, round-faced office colleagues.

"There are the residents with these special features, and then there are also historical records about the existence of these people long ago," he said.

Studies claiming that Liqian has Roman ancestry have greatly excited the impoverished county in which it is situated. The village is now overlooked by a pillared portico, in the hope of attracting tourists. A statue at the entrance of the nearby county town, Yongchang, shows a Roman legionary standing next to a Confucian scholar and a Muslim woman, as a symbol of racial harmony.

Even entrepreneurs have caught on: in "Imperial City Entertainment Street" there is a Caesar Karaoke bar.

The town's link with Rome was first suggested by a professor of Chinese history at Oxford in the 1950s. Homer Dubs pulled together stories from the official histories, which said that Liqian was founded by soldiers captured in a war between the Chinese and the Huns in 36BC, and the legend of the missing army of Marcus Crassus, a Roman general.

In 53BC Crassus was defeated disastrously and beheaded by the Parthians, a tribe occupying what is now Iran, putting an end to Rome's eastward expansion.

But stories persisted that 145 Romans were taken captive and wandered the region for years. Prof Dubs theorised that they made their way as a mercenary troop eastwards, which was how a troop "with a fish-scale formation" came to be captured by the Chinese 17 years later.

He said the "fish-scale formation" was a reference to the Roman "tortoise", a phalanx protected by shields on all sides and from above. Gu Jianming, who lives near Liqian, said it had come as a surprise to be told he might be descended from a European imperial army. But then the birth of his daughter was also a surprise. Gu Meina, now six, was born with a shock of blonde hair. "We shaved it off a month after she was born but it just grew back the same colour," he said. "At school they call her 'yellow hair'. Before we were told about the Romans, we had no idea about this. We are poor and have no family temple, so we don't know about our ancestors."

Another resident, Cai Junnian, 38, said his ruddy skin and green eyes meant he was now nicknamed Cai Luoma, or Cai the Roman, by friends. He has become a local celebrity, and was recently flown to the Italian consulate in Shanghai to meet his supposed relatives. The professor's hypothesis took almost 40 years to reach China. During Chairman Mao's rule, ideas of foreign ancestry were not ideologically welcome and the story was suppressed.

Mr Cai said his great-grandfather told him that there were Roman tombs in the Qilian mountains a day and a half's walk away, but he had never connected them to the unusual appearance he inherited from his father. "People thought I had a skin problem," he said.

The blood tests are part of a project undertaken by scientists and historians after local authorities loosened control over genetic research. The results will be published in a scientific journal. But Prof Xie Xiaodong, a geneticist from Lanzhou University, cautioned against over enthusiasm.

"Even if they are descendants of the Roman empire, it doesn't mean they are necessarily from the Roman army," he said. "The empire covered a large area. Many soldiers were recruited locally, so anything is possible."

The issue has split the university's history department, with some scholars supporting the claim, some rejecting it. Prof Wang Shaokuan poured scorn on Prof Dubs's thesis, saying the Huns themselves included Caucasians, Asians and Mongols.

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Edited by Sanbao, 18 August 2009 - 07:02 PM.

Don't make a opion first, then look for the proofs in history. First, you should study history, political opinion is just a result of connecting knowledge!

#63 tadamson

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Posted 19 August 2009 - 02:30 AM

You have to appreciate the dedication of the local officials who resurrect this time after time :D
rgds.

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#64 LongMa

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Posted 24 August 2009 - 01:18 PM

Roman? Highly unlikely, Scythians/Turks likely.
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#65 ghostexorcist

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Posted 08 August 2010 - 01:58 PM

This is sort of indirectly related to this thread...

I have recently become interested in a line of research regarding the Greek presence in ancient Central Asia and India. Alexander the great renamed several cities in his favor "Alexandria" (yes, more than one city had that name at the time). The one called "Alexandria Escahte" (Alexandria the furthest) was established in the Ferghana Valley about 250 miles from Xinjiang. It is possible that the Greeks made expeditions into China, but I doubt they ever settled.

Centuries later during the Han Dynasty, Zhang Qian came upon the Dayuan people in Ferghana and described them as being great merchants. The Dayuan people are believed by most to be the descendants of Greek settlers. Being that they lived on the Silk Road so close to China, I could see some of these people settling in the Middle Kingdom.

#66 jamjoh

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 08:48 AM

I haven't read everything here but I have noticed quite a few things that make no sense.

First off...there was limited contact between Han and Rome. The Han sent an emissary that made it to the eastern edge of the Roman empire (150BC ish) and Marcus Aurelius sent merchants that made it to the western edge of the Han empire (150AD ish). If some people can do it it stands to reason that others could do it, and probably did.

Secondly...the Roman pilum was not a large javelin but a small one (around 5ft in length). It was built to be thrown and blocked by a shield and then a special "pin" would snap and the shaft would bend, making it impossible to continue carrying the shield. Any mention of special javelins in any document, that did not mention this, is probably not referring to a Roman javelin.

Thirdly...Genghis Khan wasn't born until the 13th century, so I am extremely confused how any Roman legion would fight his armies.

Am I missing something important or misunderstanding something?

#67 TiYiJian

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 03:33 AM

in Central Asia there are so many people who got these features....




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