24 replies to this topic

[Borjigin Ayurbarwada]

If we can't rely on "historical documents" to determine which generals won which battle, than we can't determine much of anything during a period that is so long ago. But I would say that Huo never led entire battles on his own. Most of the time he was the vanguard of hit and run attacks, as described in the ShiJi. In fact the only battle I can recall that Huo actually completely led was the battle of Mobei, in which Huo controled half the army(It was actually more like two seperate battles instead of one) and defeated the XiongNu's in the eastern theatre.

Both He Xi campaigns conducted in 121 BC was commanded by Huo Qu Bing himself, slaying some 30,000 Xiongnu and Qiang.

[mariusj]

Hua Mulan was a legendary female sodier. A figure from a folk song. Not credible.

Not true.

Eh. I dare say when one cannot be proven to be true DOES NOT imply that it is false. Like, though I think Graviton exists, I cannot yet prove it to be true.

Han Xin did pretend to be defeated but in actual fact he won in every battle that he fough against Xiang Yu.

Name one battle in which Xiang Yu is defeated [aside from the last one]. When he is pursuing someone and then got stopped at a fortress really doesn't count. It was said, Xiang Yu fought seventy some battles and never lost. [吾起兵至今八岁矣，身七十馀战，所当者破，所击者服，未尝败北，遂霸有天下。 It is 8 years since I raise my banner, fought over seventy battle, whosoever tries to stop me were broken, whosoever I strike are defeated, I never taste defeat, thus I reign.]

Even if Huo Qubing really won all his battles (historical records are no guarantee for this, but let's keep this knockout argument aside), he died at age 24. His military service was so short, that I'd consider him barely noteworthy in the context of this topic.
If you compare generals, you should also put their time of service into account imo.

Hum. So, shouldn't we divide great victories over years of service? I mean, why should time of service matter?

Shouldn't it be the impact they made, and not YOS? I mean, we aren't doing pension........

Besides which, any man who dream of glory in China would say, I want to be like Huo Qu Bing

Edited by mariusj, 13 February 2008 - 05:08 AM.

[Murong Ke]

According to the Wikipedia (I know...) article for Murong Ke, there is no record of him ever losing a battle. On the other hand, it says he repeatedly feigned defeat in order to draw Ran Min's forces out into the open plains, so if tactical defeats disqualify a general from having a perfect record, Murong Ke would certainly be disqualified.

[Zuo Zongtang]

Not true.

Eh. I dare say when one cannot be proven to be true DOES NOT imply that it is false. Like, though I think Graviton exists, I cannot yet prove it to be true.

Thats not how Science, or History, works. Burden of proof lies on you to prove it is true, not on the non-believer to prove its not true. Innocent until proven guilty. Otherwise, we have some outrageous claims which will have to be accepted as true based on your logic.

[liuzg150181]

Thats not how Science, or History, works. Burden of proof lies on you to prove it is true, not on the non-believer to prove its not true. Innocent until proven guilty. Otherwise, we have some outrageous claims which will have to be accepted as true based on your logic.

I concur,and now I say there's a Flying Spaghetti Monster luring out there in the outer space,now go prove me wrong.

[Tibet Libre]

Alexander the Great and Tamerlane. Both fought against the greatest military powers of Asia and both remained undefeated in their numerous encounters. However, unlike Tamerlane, Alexander was not only an outstanding general, he was also one of the best soldiers of his army, generally fighting in the midst of the heat and sometimes even being the first to climb enemy battlements.

[Shifa Shengli]

Bai Qi never lost a single battle during 30 years military career,,, including bloody changping,, not really exaggerated if one say he contributed for unification although indirect because he served King Zhaoxiang not First Emperor

Khalid ibn Al-Walid also never lost a single battle and succesfully defeated Persian-Roman, the two great power back then,,, his success later help establishment Islamic influence on Middle East

[f0ma]

Meng Guan (孟觀) of the Western Jin dynasty is said to have never lost a battle, though I only have one source for this and it is rather dated. I can't find out much else about him though, and the only reference I've come across to a battle he fought was when he defeated Qi Wannian in 299. If he became embroiled in the subsequent War of the Eight Princes, it's doubtful his supposedly perfect record remained untarnished.

[Hou Yi]

Bai Qi and Huo Qubing are the first two that come to my mind.

Huo Qubing also have a perfect record.

He won every battle against the xiongnu and in many instances he was greatly outnumbered by the xiongnu.

Han Xin did pretend to be defeated but in actual fact he won in every battle that he fough against Xiang Yu.

How many times does Huo Qubing got outnumber?

Edited by Hou Yi, 15 July 2012 - 12:21 PM.