85 replies to this topic

[TMPikachu]

Oil paint, maybe. Lots of art techniques, like really going for 'photorealism', perspective, porportions. That's my favorite contributions the west has given to the world.

[somechineseperson]

How about writting? Wheel, stirup, stone buildings, probably also stone cutting tech.

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He said "westerners" or "arabs". Writing did not emerge in either of these cultures before China. Ancient mesopotamia (Sumer and Babylon) and ancient Egypt had writing systems that have earlier origins than the Chinese one, (but these are neither "western" nor "arab" cultures) but the Chinese written system developed independently.

[Gubook Janggoon]

How did you know?

Honestly, managed to trace the family back to the 11th Century; on father's side we came to the UK in the second wave of the Normans, while my mother's side were Scots (who ironically were from Ireland but later displaced the Pictae).

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I think I can trace mine to the beginnings of Shilla...although some parts are a bit patchy.

[somechineseperson]

one thing, scientific way of thinking from the greeks, and i think it's the best thing.

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Modern science is fundamentally different from ancient Greek science. Early modern science arose in Europe as a result of opposition against ancient knowledge and methodology, rather than inheriting them. Ancient Greek rationalism is based on deduction, whereas modern scientific rationalism is inductive. Scientific method in the modern sense did not develop until the 16th and 17th centuries in Western Europe.

[ih8eurocentrix]

the greeks invented democracy ,and they measured the distance of the sun to earth, they also came up with the theory of the atom in which some greek dude said i bet u if we break a peice of sand into a smaller and smaller peice then it will eventually become a state were it cannot be broken down anyomore ,thus calling it the atom.

[Liang Jieming]

the greeks invented democracy ,and they measured the distance of the sun to earth, they also came up with the theory of the atom in which some greek dude said i bet u if we break a peice of sand into a smaller and smaller peice then it will eventually become a state were it cannot be broken down anyomore ,thus calling it the atom.

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The greeks were great philosophers and had some pretty accurate and amazing theories.

[ih8eurocentrix]

did chinese ever do astronomy and measure any distances or think that the world revolved around the sun etc.

[TMPikachu]

did chinese ever do astronomy and measure any distances or think that the world revolved around the sun etc.

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Yeah. I'm not sure about the earth/sun thing, but Chinese were very big on astronomy.

[Liang Jieming]

did chinese ever do astronomy and measure any distances or think that the world revolved around the sun etc.

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Sure they did. China has the world's most complete astromonical records dating back to 2000+ B.C.

Here are just some of records I picked out from my DSL database on Astronomical observations, measurements and records.

Eclipse of the Sun
The earliest record of an eclipse was in 2136 B.C. However the earliest verifiable eclipse was the eclipse of May 26, 1217 BC

Halley's Comet
During the Spring and Autumn Period, some 2,200 years ago, Chinese documents already had entries on what later came to be known as Halley's Comet. The record of the comet, which appeared in 613 BC, in Spring and Autumn Annals is recognized as the earliest mention of Halley's Comet in the world. Since Halley's Comet visits the earth once every 76 years, it came back to the earth 29 times during a period of 2,149 years from 240 BC (the 7th year of the reign of the First Emperor of Qin) to 1910 (the 2nd year of the reign of Emperor Xuantong of Qing).

Length of a year
Zu Chongzhi (420-589) worked out the Daming Calendar, China's most advanced calendar of his era. After observations and studies, he concluded that a year lasted exactly 365.24281481 days which was only 46 seconds different from the modern estimate. Guo Shoujing (1231-1316), a noted scientist of the Yuan Dynasty, made major improvements to the sundial. First he created a tower sundial, raising its height from the original 2.66 meters to 13.33 meters, which drastically increased its accuracy. Based on his research, the calendar was revised. His calendar had 365.2425 days in a year, which was only 26 seconds different from the time it takes the earth to go around the sun. His achievement was 300 years earlier than the finalization of the modern calendar. Xing Yunlu, an astronomer of the Ming Dynasty (1368-1644), further raised the height of the sundial by erecting a twenty-meter-tall one and his statistics derived from this sundial enabled him to calculate that there were 365.2417 days in a tropical year, which constituted the most accurate figure at the time in the world, with a difference of only 2.3 seconds from the modern calculation.

Measurement of Meridian Line
Monk Yixing (683-727) was a pre-eminent astronomer and in 724 he directed a survey in the Henan area in order to measure the length of the sun's shadow and the altitude of the North Pole. This was the first recorded ground measurement of the meridian line. He concluded that the length of a degree of the meridian line was 351.27 li by Tang measurement, which meant 123.7 km. This was the first measurement of the meridian ever done in the world.

Meteoric Shower
The Bamboo Annals records a meteoric shower in 2133 BC in today's Henan Province. This is the first mention in the world of a meteoric shower.

Star Chart
During the Warring States Period (475-221 BC) Gan De of the State of Chu and Shi Shen of the State of Wei together wrote The Gan and Shi Book of the Stars, which accurately record the positions of 120 stars, constituting the world's earliest star chart. The lid of a lacquer chest of the Warring States Period unearthed in Suizhou, Hebei Province, has a list of the 28 constellations, China's earliest record of the entire list of the constellations.

Sun Spots
First recorded in 28 BC by Chinese astronomers during the reign of Emperor Cheng of the Western Han Dynasty.

Determination of Latitudes
Accurate method of calculating Latitudes based on Polaris for the northern hemisphere was already well established. However, the determining of latitudes for the southern hemisphere based on Canopis and the Southern Cross was completed in 1422. (This is based on Menzies' book and should be read with caution.)

Determination of Longitude
Accurate calculation of Longitude for Navigation was solved in 1423 using observatories setup around the world. (This is based on Menzies' book and should be read with caution though the method used described by Menzies is highly probable and according to him, comes from his research of old chinese records.)

[somechineseperson]

the greeks invented democracy ,and they measured the distance of the sun to earth, they also came up with the theory of the atom in which some greek dude said i bet u if we break a peice of sand into a smaller and smaller peice then it will eventually become a state were it cannot be broken down anyomore ,thus calling it the atom.

An ancient Chinese philosopher during the warring states period called Hui Shi also came up (independently AFAIK) with the idea of the "small unit", which is the smallest and most fundamental building block of matter, with nothing inside itself.

[somechineseperson]

the greeks invented democracy ,and they measured the distance of the sun to earth, they also came up with the theory of the atom in which some greek dude said i bet u if we break a peice of sand into a smaller and smaller peice then it will eventually become a state were it cannot be broken down anyomore ,thus calling it the atom.

I don't mean to discredit the ancient Greeks, who were a great people, but I would argue that ancient Greek democracy and modern western democracy have fundamental differences. Modern western democracy, which stresses the fundamenal intrinsic equality and rights of all human beings, and the rejection of absolute power in any particular person or group's hands, is IMHO significantly based on Christian ideals of human equality before God (so that all are intrinsically equal and have basic rights) and the concept of original sin (so that absolute power can never be given to a single person, because everyone is fundamentally sinful so absolute power would necessarily lead to corruption).

[janz]

hmmmmmmm, " significantly based on Christian ideals of human equality before God "?

interesting, where did you learn your history? it's true that greek democracy is different from modern democracy, but modern democracy didn't come from christians. that's a really wild connection you got there.

btw, slavery in europe and usa was also justified by Christian ideas. slavery is not so democratic to me.

[Tibet Libre]

im just wondering what the west or arabs or any other countries invented before china before modern times of course!

Better leave the ancient Middle East (Pharaonic Egypt, Sumer, Babylon, Jericho, etc.) out of the equation since most of the really basic inventions took place.

agriculture, sewage, scripture, astronomical observations, international diplomacy, iron, first two level building, first pillar, heck even society as such was presumbly first invented, used or practiced in the fertile arc. I mean the very BASIC concepts were first introduced there (though later often invented elsewhere independently).

For your list:
- parchment (Greek Pergamon 3rd century BC)
- coined money (Lydians 6th century BC)
- objective, systematic historical science (Thukydides 460-400 BC)

etc.

[Grigori]

The screw (Greeks)

Abacus (Babylonians)

Fractions (Babylonians)

Algebra/Trigonometry (Arabs)

Geometry/Calculus (Greeks)

Concept of Atom (Greeks)

Concept of Infiniti (Greeks)

Concept of World as Round (Greeks)

Sextent (Greeks)

Steam Engine (Greeks)

Computer (Greeks)

Batteries (Egyptians)

Library (Greeks)

Theater (Greeks)

The Play (Greeks)

Hospital (Arabs)

Optics (Arabs)

Lens (Europeans)

Wootz Steel (Indians/Arabs)

Number Zero (Indians/Arabs)

Dissection and Anatomy (Romans)

Mechanical Clock (Europeans)

Slide Ruler (Europeans)

Inertia (Europeans)

Concept of Sun Centered Solarsystem (Europeans)

[somechineseperson]

hmmmmmmm, " significantly based on Christian ideals of human equality before God "?

interesting, where did you learn your history? it's true that greek democracy is different from modern democracy, but modern democracy didn't come from christians. that's a really wild connection you got there.

btw, slavery in europe and usa was also justified by Christian ideas. slavery is not so democratic to me.

Modern secular culture in the West is often biased against Christianity, similar to how modern Chinese people are biased against Confucianism.

I am not a Christian, but have an interest in some Christian ideas.