27 replies to this topic

[Messalini]

I don't know Mongolian language or script, but it would be sad, I think, if the Mongolian script fell out of use completely. I noticed there are comments that it is difficult to learn, including because letters are written different ways depending on their position in the word. But I think people often exagerate difficulties. Arabic alphabet has the same system of writing letters different ways depending on where they are in the word, and I know Arabic alphabet (farsi variety of it), and I do not think it is difficult. If you learn it in school, you would just get used to it fast, I think.

Keeping old language alive is a hard thing, and especially because languages inevitably change over time, and this is natural, but there are examples of 'old language' being made to fit modern life. As far as I understand, the Jews revived Hebrew writing and language only about 100 years ago, to have a language for Israel, and it has become a modern living language now.

But I also see no reason not to teach both Mongolian script and cyrillic. I would say cyrillic, because outer Mongolia uses it, and so do all of the surrounding peoples in southern Siberia etc, so this creates a common writing that goes beyond Mongolia itself, and I think this is a good thing. I do not know how well Cyrillic is adapted to Mongolian language, but I suppose people have become used to it by now. If the two writing systems could coexist, that would be good.

Well said!Traditional Mongolian (Uighurjin for Khalkha or Todo for Oirat Mongols) for preserving Mongolian identity meanwhile Cyrillic to interact with other Siberian and Central Asian native folks at this period of time.In Inner Mongolia it is better continue to use Uighurjin along as Khanzi to interact with Han Chinese ppl keeping alive Eastern culture.

[ZhongYuan]

Would be ridiculous to adopt Cyrillic I think, Mongolia use Cyrillic because of Russian imperialism and try do to Mongol what they did to Central Asian peoples, but inner Mongolia survive such influence completely, why should Cyrillic be taken up now even though its been resisted? Is Russian alphabet some how superior to Mongolian script that it needs to be adopted now?

[Dagvadorj]

There is a rumor about a renowned Mongolian scholar (not sure Jamsrano or Renchin) sent letter to Inner Mongolian scholars and even Mao about not converting Mongolian script in Inner Mongolia.

[yan]

Is Russian alphabet some how superior to Mongolian script that it needs to be adopted now?

For starters, you write like you speak. No need to write "Öbör mongghol-un öbertegen jasaqu oron" when what you pronounce it like is much closer to "Övör mongolyn örtöö jasaqu oron" (special attention to the genitive suffix for "mongghol" and to "öbertegen"). Second, cyrillic has different letters for o ("oron") and u ("Ulaanbaatar"), ö ("örtöö") and ü ("ünen"). Third, in cyrillic the letters for a,e,n,h,g actually look different (consider a word like "Ulaghankhada").

[Tibet Libre]

Would it be great if there had been or will be a common writing system (Roman) suitable for the sounds of the Mongolic languages? Let's discuss.

I once read a linguist making a case for the Cyrillic alphabet being more suitable to the Mongolian languages than the Latin alphabet, but don't ask me for details.

[Karakhan]

Would be ridiculous to adopt Cyrillic I think, Mongolia use Cyrillic because of Russian imperialism and try do to Mongol what they did to Central Asian peoples, but inner Mongolia survive such influence completely, why should Cyrillic be taken up now even though its been resisted? Is Russian alphabet some how superior to Mongolian script that it needs to be adopted now?

Mongolia did try to re-introduce traditional script some time during the early-mid 90's, but it was met with little success. One of the reasons is that the Mongol script is much harder to learn than cyrillic (or an alphabet). Another reason is that Mongol script (as well as Manchu script for that matter) was really space consuming, writing the same word in Mongol script took up much more space than one using cyrillic, so books and papers tended to be longer/thicker.

[yan]

One of the reasons is that the Mongol script is much harder to learn than cyrillic (or an alphabet).

I think Mongol script is an alphabet. That, or I don't have a proper understanding of what an alphabet is. Edit: But yes, i think cyrillic is much easier to learn, esp. if you already know latin.

I think another reason why the reintroduction failed was pure inertia. Cyrillic quite practical, there is no need to switch scripts when one works perfectly well and the other one is no real improvement.

In the 1940's, much fewer people could read and/or write, so switching was probably much less of a problem (plus the government back then was less concerned about public opinion).

Edited by yan, 21 July 2009 - 07:00 AM.

[Karakhan]

I think Mongol script is an alphabet. That, or I don't have a proper understanding of what an alphabet is. Edit: But yes, i think cyrillic is much easier to learn, esp. if you already know latin.

I think another reason why the reintroduction failed was pure inertia. Cyrillic quite practical, there is no need to switch scripts when one works perfectly well and the other one is no real improvement.

In the 1940's, much fewer people could read and/or write, so switching was probably much less of a problem (plus the government back then was less concerned about public opinion).

actually I was trying to say Roman alphabet but should've been clearer on it. But you are certainly right that Mongol script is an alphabetic script.

[XiaoXiao]

I heard outer Mongolia government starting to use Roman alphabet rather than Cyrillic. For economy and education progress.

[yan]

I heard outer Mongolia government starting to use Roman alphabet rather than Cyrillic. For economy and education progress.

Sure? They don't seem to use many characters for writing the Mongolian words on www.president.mn.

Honestly, although Latin characters are used quite a lot in online discussions or on sms and the like (because not everyone has a cyrillic keyboard), I don't think a change of alphabets is coming soon. I think there is just no strong reason for it.

[harandaa]

I suppose that Cyrillic and Latin scripts have the advantage that they combine easily with the internet and printing - classical Mongol script runs the wrong way to be convenient. It is great, though.

[yan]

There is a rumor about a renowned Mongolian scholar (not sure Jamsrano or Renchin) sent letter to Inner Mongolian scholars and even Mao about not converting Mongolian script in Inner Mongolia.

Jamsrano was probably dead by 1949. The PRC did apparently plan to introduce Cyrillic for Mongolian in the late 1950s. That it didn't has probably more to do with the Sino-Soviet split than with anything else. Even if some Inner Mongolian intellectuals might have been quite happy with that decision (to not introduce Cyrillic)

[yan]

I suppose that Cyrillic and Latin scripts have the advantage that they combine easily with the internet and printing - classical Mongol script runs the wrong way to be convenient. It is great, though.

Another reason for the failure of the re-introduction of the classical script in the early 1990s might be that it was prepared poorly, say, elementary school teachers were probably not qualified, parents didn't know anything to help their children learn the script, and due to fact that it was only the project of a few intellectuals. Kind of like "New Math" elsewhere in the 1960s.

Outer Mongolians generally have rather few doubts re. their Mongolness, so the nationalism factor about having their own script was probably not that important.