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Tang's threat contributed to Japan's Taika Reforms


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#1 snowybeagle

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 12:20 AM

I am in the process of reading The First Samurai - The Life and Legend of the Warrior Rebel Taira Masakado, by Karl F. Friday, published by John Wiley & Sons (2008), ISBN 978-0-471-76082-5.

I am piqued by a reference on page 12 (Chapter 1 Masakado and His Legacy) on the mention linking the Taika Reforms in AD 646 to a perceived threat from the Tang Dynasty in China.

The reformers succeeded through an esoteric combination of cajolery, cooptation, and coercion, aided in no small measure by widespread apprehension over the very real - or so it seems at the time - threat of Chinese attack on the homeland. Specters of Tang invasion fleets looming over the horizon served to mute opposition to losses of local or hereditary privilige and to promote support for state-strengthening reforms, as central and provincial noble houses set aside their differences in the face of a perceived common enemy. For it was obvious to all concerned that the Yamato military organization was far from equal to the task of fending off the Tang.[24]

[24] Batten, Bruce. "Foreign Threat and Domestic Reform: The Emergence of the Ritsuryo State," Monumenta Nipponica, Vol. 41, No. 2 (Summer, 1986), pp. 10-14.



As far as I am aware, the Sui/Tang only had relatively minor conflicts over support for different states in the Korean peninsula. Even then, the logistical difficulties projecting their military strength to Korea kept the scale of their involvements small.

How credible would it then that the Heian Imperial Court and regional daimyos/elites actually thought that a credible threat of a water-borne invasion from Tang Dynasty could materialise?

To what extent was the boogie man of Tang thought to be serious by all those involved?

Edited by snowybeagle, 22 February 2008 - 12:26 AM.


#2 LongMa

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 09:05 AM

I think historically the Japanese have been in awe of and in fear of China (at least until the 1800's).


Japan was very close to Baekje and sent a small contingent of forces to help defend it against a united Silla and Tang Dynasty attack. They failed to shore up Bakeje. King Uija and his son fled to Japan (along with other aristocrats and likely tradesmen). This was during the Asuka period of Japan and I believe most Japanese became increasing worried about their own security.

The Taika reforms started before all this, but many of them were never fully implemented, it is always hard to change a system and the two major clans involved in government were at odds, one feeling the reforms might favor the other, there was some deadlock.

Emperor Temmu was the first to really consolidate and push through some lasting reforms and got through the Ritsuryō system. Almost 35 years later the more formalized Taihō Code was established. This established a more centralized Chinese confucianist model of government. Until that time I think most of Japan was still fairly neolithic (late stone age) and very tribal/clannish. Around this time the Emporers started calling themselves Tenno (a divine title) and Shitonism started to become more codified (like Buddhism), i think an a attempt to centralize and legitimize authority around the Royal Family in a way that was not alterable.

I don't have exact references but I'm pretty sure after Goguryeo fell to Silla-Tang forces and then Japan's ally Baekje within a few years of each other the Yamato court became quite worried about their future.


To some I'm sure it seemed like China was expanding its influence through a proxy (Silla). If I was in Japan and I had sent people to China and they reported back how advanced it was compared to Japan I would be pretty afraid.

One thing I learned living in Japan, if Japanese people in the 600's were half as paranoid as Japanese people are today of anything they can not predict (especially something foreign) they likely were freaking out big time. :D

Edited by LongMa, 22 February 2008 - 09:10 AM.

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#3 Borjigin Ayurbarwada

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Posted 03 August 2008 - 04:48 PM

Many studies of this has already been done in Japan. The real paranoia which Japan felt was right after the battle of Bai Jiangkou 白江口(白村江in Japanese) in 663. Japan had prepared years for this battle by gathering up munition, ships, man, and logistics. Yet all was annihilated by the Tang navy and 400 Japanese ships were set ablaze. The impact of this battle on Japanese psychology was immense and altered Japanese foreign policy for the next mellenium. Japan shifted from actively participating in Korean affairs to a none interference policy until Toyotomi Hideyoshi again attempted to set foot in Korea.
According to the Samguk Sagi: "国家修理船艘, 外托征伐倭国, 其实欲打新罗. "Although the Tang was assembling its ships as if it is going to attack the Wo kingdom (Japan), it really wanted to attack Shilla." The Tang might have built up its miltiary in the east and whether or not it was directed against Japan, Silla, or merely for defensive purposes, it must have caused alarm in both Shilla and Japan. Hence from 664 on, Yamato Japan spent huge sums of money on its coastal security and built 4 lines of defense. The first defense was at the the 马, 壹 mountain, the second line was at present day 山口县. the third line of defense was at 香川县, and the final line was in 高安city at the Gao An mountain.

Edited by Borjigin Ayurbarwada, 03 August 2008 - 05:15 PM.


#4 snowybeagle

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Posted 05 August 2008 - 08:00 PM

Thanks warhead, or do you prefer BA?

Besides Samguk Sagi, what other historical references can provide the info?

#5 Yun

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Posted 06 August 2008 - 04:49 AM

We are dealing with two related issues here:

1) The motivation for the anti-Soga coup of 645 and Taika Reform of 646. Was it a response to Tang Taizong's invasion of Koguryo and the resultant threat of a Tang invasion of Japan via Korea? Inoue Mitsusada (1975) and Bruce Batten (1986), among others, argue that it was. But I have not read their arguments, so I cannot comment on how convincing they are.

2) The motivation for the reforms of Emperor Temmu, Empress Jito, and Emperor Mommu in 672-702, culminating in the Taiho Code of 701-702 which established a Tang-style military system based on conscription. Were they a response to the disastrous defeat at Paekchon (白江) in 663? There is evidence (as BA mentioned above) that in the late 660s the Yamato court ordered fortifications to be constructed on Tsushima island, Iki island, and Kyushu in preparation for a seaborne invasion. However, John Whitney Hall in his classic work Government and Local Power in Japan, 500-1700 (1966, pp. 45-98) suggests that the court actually used the threat of invasion as an excuse to create a more centralized military system that would curtail the power of local strongmen. I suppose it depends whether we see the Yamato rulers as more passively reactive or more actively opportunistic.

How credible would it then that the Heian Imperial Court and regional daimyos/elites actually thought that a credible threat of a water-borne invasion from Tang Dynasty could materialise?


I think I should note here that the use of 'Heian' and 'daimyo' is anachronistic. The Yamato court was then in the area known as Asuka or Yamato, which corresponds to present-day Nara prefecture. The imperial capital only moved from Nara to Heian in 794. As for 'daimyo', this title first appeared in the period of the Ashikaga shogunate (1336-1573).
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#6 Yun

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Posted 06 August 2008 - 05:02 AM

Besides Samguk Sagi, what other historical references can provide the info?


The Japanese primary sources (Samguk Sagi is Korean) are the court histories Nihongi and Nihon Shoki. One passage in these sources perhaps reflects the Yamato court's fear of Tang invasion. In 671, the Tang court sent a diplomatic mission to Japan to release a high-ranking Paekche official taken prisoner during the war. But before the mission sailed from Tsushima, it first sent several Japanese prisoners of war ahead to Kyushu. The reason, as given by the Tang ambassador to the Yamato court, was that the Tang ships were so many that if they suddenly arrived in Japan, the Japanese guards would be alarmed and start shooting arrows at them. So the POWs were sent in advance to inform the court that a Tang mission was arriving soon.

I knew about the above passage from a secondary source: William Wayne Farris' Heavenly Warriors: The Evolution of Japan's Military, 500-1300. It is a very useful and comprehensive study of early Japanese military institutions, military equipment, and military history. But I suspect that I bought the only copy available for sale in Singapore.
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#7 snowybeagle

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Posted 06 August 2008 - 11:37 AM

Thanks for the correction, Yun.

I need to do more reading on Japan's history. Interesting - I am seeing more parallels during the Asuka period to Shang/Zhou era, as well as post-Roman & pre-Norman Britain.

#8 Borjigin Ayurbarwada

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Posted 06 August 2008 - 12:53 PM

The Japanese primary sources (Samguk Sagi is Korean) are the court histories Nihongi and Nihon Shoki.


The Nihongi and the Niho Shoki is the same book, the former is an abbreviation of the later.

The Japanese primary sources (Samguk Sagi is Korean) are the court histories Nihongi and Nihon Shoki. One passage in these sources perhaps reflects the Yamato court's fear of Tang invasion. In 671, the Tang court sent a diplomatic mission to Japan to release a high-ranking Paekche official taken prisoner during the war. But before the mission sailed from Tsushima, it first sent several Japanese prisoners of war ahead to Kyushu. The reason, as given by the Tang ambassador to the Yamato court, was that the Tang ships were so many that if they suddenly arrived in Japan, the Japanese guards would be alarmed and start shooting arrows at them. So the POWs were sent in advance to inform the court that a Tang mission was arriving soon.


There are many other indirect evidence of Japanese paranoia. In volume 217, Nihonshoki mentioned four envoys from the Tang in 664, 667, 669, and 671. Yet none of these could be found in Chinese sources. The Japanese even tried to link the Mount Tai ritual of Tang Gao zong in 666 with the battle of Baijiang kou when it had nothing to do with it. Furthermore according to Nihonshoki, during the Tang envoy Liu Degao's visit in 665, the Japanese made a military display at Tudao in an attempt to awe the envoy and prevent a Tang invasion.

#9 snowybeagle

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Posted 06 August 2008 - 07:07 PM

Thanks BA.

I also found that there seems to be a shortage of Chinese accounts of Tang imperial diplomatic ventures to Japan.

#10 f0ma

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 01:31 AM

I am in the process of reading The First Samurai - The Life and Legend of the Warrior Rebel Taira Masakado, by Karl F. Friday, published by John Wiley & Sons (2008), ISBN 978-0-471-76082-5.

I am piqued by a reference on page 12 (Chapter 1 Masakado and His Legacy) on the mention linking the Taika Reforms in AD 646 to a perceived threat from the Tang Dynasty in China.


The reformers succeeded through an esoteric combination of cajolery, cooptation, and coercion, aided in no small measure by widespread apprehension over the very real - or so it seems at the time - threat of Chinese attack on the homeland. Specters of Tang invasion fleets looming over the horizon served to mute opposition to losses of local or hereditary privilige and to promote support for state-strengthening reforms, as central and provincial noble houses set aside their differences in the face of a perceived common enemy. For it was obvious to all concerned that the Yamato military organization was far from equal to the task of fending off the Tang.[24]

[24] Batten, Bruce. "Foreign Threat and Domestic Reform: The Emergence of the Ritsuryo State," Monumenta Nipponica, Vol. 41, No. 2 (Summer, 1986), pp. 10-14.


Inoue Mitsusada (1975) and Bruce Batten (1986), among others, argue that it was. But I have not read their arguments, so I cannot comment on how convincing they are.


Unfortunately, this thread is slightly off-track, as the original poster didn't reference correctly. In the paragraph before, Friday writes: 'In the wake of this spectacular coup d'etat, [against the Soga] Tenji and his supporters introduced a series of centralising measures collectively known as the Taika Reforms, after the calender era in which they were first launched. Over the next few decades, the great regional powers were stripped of their independent bases...' Friday is talking of the entire reform movement from Taika to Taiho, not solely the Taika Reforms. His arguments are similar to Herman Ooms's.

Batten also does not argue for this. In the referenced article, he states: 'Ishimoda, pp. 48-71, interprets the Taika coup itself as an attempt to concentrate power in response to external threats, ultimately traceable to Tang expansionism. The weak point of this interesting hypothesis is that there is little evidence of a real or perceived foreign threat during the 640s.' It is Ishimoda Shō, in fact, who propagates the theory. Also, whilst Mitsusada does argue for this, he theorises that it was an indirect influence, though doesn't seem to come up with much evidence to support this assumption, from what I've read. The only modern scholar I've seen so far to argue that the Taika Reforms were a direct result of Tang expansionism is the aforementioned Farris.

The Japanese weren't threatened by Tang until 650, when the latter allied with Silla. This supposedly 'proved' they had expansionist tendencies towards Japan, which isn't in itself unreasonable. The Taika Reforms came about from reformist elements within the Imperial court, who had studied under various Chinese monks and returning Japanese students. I believe the reforms were more a response to: i) the growing influence of court clans, such as the Soga, who were on the brink of usurping the throne, ii) other internal threats (such as the Emishi), and iii) a desire to emulate a more advanced culture.

I believe the real problem here is people declaring the entire reform movement of 645-702 a result of Tang expansionism and failing to identify the Taika Reforms as separate. This is something I'm challenging in a forthcoming article.

There are many other indirect evidence of Japanese paranoia. In volume 217, Nihonshoki mentioned four envoys from the Tang in 664, 667, 669, and 671. Yet none of these could be found in Chinese sources. The Japanese even tried to link the Mount Tai ritual of Tang Gao zong in 666 with the battle of Baijiang kou when it had nothing to do with it. Furthermore according to Nihonshoki, during the Tang envoy Liu Degao's visit in 665, the Japanese made a military display at Tudao in an attempt to awe the envoy and prevent a Tang invasion.

I also found that there seems to be a shortage of Chinese accounts of Tang imperial diplomatic ventures to Japan.


There are also a lack of Chinese sources pertaining to Yamato delegations, such as the 653 and 654 missions, which go unrecorded in official histories. As far as the five Chinese embassies following the battle of Baekgang go (two were sent in 671, one under Li Shouzen and one under Guo Wuzong), even though we're relying on the often controversial Ninhonshoki, I haven't heard of any scholars dismissing the missions out of hand as Japanese paranoia (though there is of course debate about the nature and intention of the missions). It's more than possible that records of the missions were lost in the three centuries between their voyages and the compilation of the Tangshu.

The Nihongi and the Niho Shoki is the same book, the former is an abbreviation of the later.


Perhaps he was referring to the Shoku Nihongi.

Edited by f0ma, 12 September 2012 - 09:23 AM.


#11 rocket7777

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 04:11 PM

I am in the process of reading The First Samurai - The Life and Legend of the Warrior Rebel Taira Masakado, by Karl F. Friday, published by John Wiley & Sons (2008), ISBN 978-0-471-76082-5.

I am piqued by a reference on page 12 (Chapter 1 Masakado and His Legacy) on the mention linking the Taika Reforms in AD 646 to a perceived threat from the Tang Dynasty in China.



As far as I am aware, the Sui/Tang only had relatively minor conflicts over support for different states in the Korean peninsula. Even then, the logistical difficulties projecting their military strength to Korea kept the scale of their involvements small.

How credible would it then that the Heian Imperial Court and regional daimyos/elites actually thought that a credible threat of a water-borne invasion from Tang Dynasty could materialise?

To what extent was the boogie man of Tang thought to be serious by all those involved?

 

I am in the process of reading The First Samurai - The Life and Legend of the Warrior Rebel Taira Masakado, by Karl F. Friday, published by John Wiley & Sons (2008), ISBN 978-0-471-76082-5.

I am piqued by a reference on page 12 (Chapter 1 Masakado and His Legacy) on the mention linking the Taika Reforms in AD 646 to a perceived threat from the Tang Dynasty in China.



As far as I am aware, the Sui/Tang only had relatively minor conflicts over support for different states in the Korean peninsula. Even then, the logistical difficulties projecting their military strength to Korea kept the scale of their involvements small.

How credible would it then that the Heian Imperial Court and regional daimyos/elites actually thought that a credible threat of a water-borne invasion from Tang Dynasty could materialise?

To what extent was the boogie man of Tang thought to be serious by all those involved?

Baekje was ally and VERY POWERFUL nation that controlled east china sea coast with iron technology etc.

If tang defeated sui and beating up on baekje, it is  a very very serious threat japan could have been next.



#12 f0ma

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 07:12 PM

 
Baekje was ally and VERY POWERFUL nation that controlled east china sea coast with iron technology etc.
If tang defeated sui and beating up on baekje, it is  a very very serious threat japan could have been next.

What? Paekje was hardly powerful by the seventh century. The Japanese court did fear an invasion during the period of 663-672. Before or after, no.

#13 rocket7777

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 06:13 PM

What? Paekje was hardly powerful by the seventh century. The Japanese court did fear an invasion during the period of 663-672. Before or after, no.

I think they probably discovered proper pronunciation or something last few years and as far as I see, baekje is used now days.

Yayoi/kohum are made of various refuge.  Formerly very powerful nation baekje was getting bead up and japan helped but were not successful.  That is HUGE disaster which added to the fear.
 
Just like in qin, book burning occurred in japan around 600 too.  That is fear of written knowledge might reduce prestige or reduction in people believing divine lie which might result in reduction in likelihood of long lasting dynasty.
 





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