254 replies to this topic

[Shiang]

for the record, most Hakka were pirates during the Ming dynasty, will you guys stop the racist c**p about Jews and business.

A few european jews own busineeses and banking. Most european (ashkenazi jews) are not into business, but into normal white collar jobs. This is an anti semitic stereotype. Russian jews were mostly communists, and supported socialism, not commercial activities. Remember- Karl Marx, who invented communism, was jewish. Hitler hated communism since tons of them were jews

Its only true of middle eastern Mirzahi and Sephardic jews. they are crazy about commercial stuff and are materialistic, they own tons of busineeses and are very rich traders, like David Sassoon the iraqi Jew who traded opium with china.

[ghostexorcist]

for the record, most Hakka were pirates during the Ming dynasty, will you guys stop the racist c**p about Jews and business.

A few european jews own busineeses and banking. Most european (ashkenazi jews) are not into business, but into normal white collar jobs. This is an anti semitic stereotype. Russian jews were mostly communists, and supported socialism, not commercial activities. Remember- Karl Marx, who invented communism, was jewish. Hitler hated communism since tons of them were jews

Its only true of middle eastern Mirzahi and Sephardic jews. they are crazy about commercial stuff and are materialistic, they own tons of busineeses and are very rich traders, like David Sassoon the iraqi Jew who traded opium with china.

Calm down. You should have read the entire thread. Page 4 is when I turned it into a serious discussion on the Jews of China. Concerning business, Chinese records attest to the fact that the Jewish presence in China has comprised mostly merchants.

[ghostexorcist]

I visited Hebrew Union College in Cincinnati back in 2008 with the intent of viewing their collection of Kaifeng liturgical texts. Unfortunately, the library that housed them was under construction and wouldn't be finished until 2010. The Rare Books Depository Librarian did, however, let me look at some scans of them on disk. It was neat, but it wasn't the same as looking at the originals. I happened to be near there today while running some errands in Cincinnati, so I stopped by to see if the library was done. It was, but the Rare Books Depository Librarian had already left for the day. It was worth the side trip, though. They had one of the small, square Kaifeng prayer books on display in a glass case with other rare Jewish documents from around the world. The info tag dated it to the year 1619-1620. Only a pane of glass and a few inches of air separated me from an artifact of a sub-culture I have been studying for years. It was the highlight of my day. I only wish I would have had my camera with me!

[Bar Kochba]

 Even the most Jew today seem mixed with Europeans.. I wonder if there are still relatively-pure Jews in the world nowadays.

There is much misunderstanding of the Jewish population. Jewish identity is a ethno/religious designation. Although anyone from any ethnic group can convert to Judaism and therefore intermarry, historically the amount of these conversions has been fairly insignificant as Judaism discourages proselytization. Additionally Jews have often been regarded with contempt, so it is unlikely converting to Judaism was a popular choice. Another thing to bear in mind is that up until the German Enlightenment  movement around 250 years ago, an overwhelming majority of the Jewish population adhered to Jewish Religious law as exposited in the Shulchan Aruch (Jewish Code of Law), Mishna, Talmud, and Rabbinic responsa, all of which strictly prohibit assimilation and intermarriage with non-Jewish populations. Jews who intermarried virtually never continued to live within the Jewish community and therefore inevitably disappeared onto assimilation. Because of these factors, Jews maintained a significantly homogenous ethnic profile estimated to be around 87% (Jewish ethnicity can also be confirmed via genetics as well, even to the extent that the Kohanim, the priestly caste, have distinct genetic markers themselves occurring at a rate of 98.7% in studies - research has purported this is the highest paternity certainty rate ever recorded in genetic studies.

[Bar Kochba]

Nobody here at all suggests this. The only thing similar was said by Damo: that Hakka is no more Jewish than any other Chinese ethnicity. But this does not mean that every Chinese is Jewish -- it means that Hakka is NO MORE Jewish than any other Chinese ethnicity. I'm no more Divine than you, but that doesn't mean we are both Divine -- neither of us is, but the statement that I'm no more so is still true.

Read very carefully before responding next time.



Be very careful about your wording. There is no such thing as "Jewish blood." Jewishness is, above all, a religious heritage. Anyone, such as you and I, can convert to Judaism and become true Jews, according to Orthodox Judaism (we won't have a tribal affiliation, but we would nonetheless be Israelites.) Unlike some religions where religious identity is obtained only through conversion, Judaism has another means in addition: that a person born of a Jewish mother is automatically a Jew, and has no need of conversion if I'm not mistaken. But this doesn't mean Jewishness is a blood (for example, having a Gentile father and a Jewish mother doesn't make a person half-Jewish -- he's fully Jewish.) Thus Jewishness is strictly a religious definition according to Orthodox Judaism.

You need to be careful especially since the Nazi argued that Jewishness is a race, and this idea has been discredited by both religious Judaism (which obviously holds different definitions) and secular academia (which doesn't want any affiliation with Nazism, besides finding the Nazi definition impossible.) Let's not open the can of worms known as Nazism that was opened recently on CHF.

 

 Even the most Jew today seem mixed with Europeans.. I wonder if there are still relatively-pure Jews in the world nowadays.

There is much misunderstanding of the Jewish population. Jewish identity is a ethno/religious designation. Although anyone from any ethnic group can convert to Judaism and therefore intermarry, historically the amount of these conversions has been fairly insignificant as Judaism discourages proselytization. Another thing to bear in mind is that up until the German Enlightenment  movement around 250 years ago an overwhelming majority of the Jewish population adhered to Jewish Religious law as exposited in the Shulchan Aruch (Jewish Code of Law), Mishna, Talmud, and Rabbinic responsa, which strictly prohibits assimilation and intermarriage with non-Jewish populations. Jews who intermarried virtually never continued to live within the Jewish community and therefore inevitably disappeared onto assimilation. Because of these factors Jews maintained a significantly homogenous ethnic profile estimated to be around 87% (Jewish ethnicity can also be confirmed via genetics as well, even to the extant that the Kohanim, the priestly caste, have distinct genetic markers themselves - research has purported

[Bar Kochba]

General Zhao Yun, I don't know how you could have been misled on the 'Jew' matter. Anybody could post a thread, saying " I have heard that Hakka was related to Italians. Anybody have any to contribute?"

The Jew matter could probably be a closed case after reading Sidney Rittenberg the American communist who came to serve in China's civil wars in late 1940s. He tried his best to revive the Jew topic of Kaifeng, a city that had been destroyed by wars and Yellow River floods numerous times in history. It would be a real c**p to think any Jews could actually have survived and still live in Kaifeng of Henan today. The possible attachment to a 'Jewish' heritage in Kaifeng and China at large could be purely speculative and circumvential.

In any case, should any Jews have come to China in Tang Dynasty, they were merged into Muslim herds and became indistinguiishable from the Islam. As someone already pointed out, Hakka had come to southern China in 3-4th century AD, much earlier than Tang Dynasty. Hakka, literally meaning 'guest dweller', was not an ethnic terminology.

In Central Asia, it took hundreds of years for Buddhists and Muslims to fight out the war. HINDU KUSH, another area of conflict, literally meant for the Blood of the Hindus, showed how bloody the wars between two religions were. Anyone who imagined that some Jews could slipped through the Islam-Buddhism power struggles must be day-dreaming.

As a side note, there are few Hakkas, or White supremacists pretending to be Hakka, who had been spreading a non-Mongoloid origin of Chinese since year 2000.

Should you find 'modern Jews' in China, please note that White Russians who fled to China for asylum, had been mostly Jews. After Russian Jews, European Jews had come to China. Not to mention the Jews who came to China in 18th-19th century trading Opiums. The Jewish damage to China was and is OPIUM. Their HK firm which was notorious for opium trade of 1840s, still exists in HK today. The Jew-Opium connection should serve as a warning to you guys how they rode on White colonialist gunboats and warships in causing havoc to China, and in another sense, havoc to Beirut today. I would like to ask you guys to avoid the blind affiliation here. Should any real Chinese 'Jew' be capable of presenting some written evidence, like a family lineage book, we could discuss this topic further on a case by case basis.

You insinuate that "the" Jews caused all this damage. First of all if this were true, it's quite surprising such a miniscule population caused so much damage to such a glorious nation. Regardless, it wasn't "the" Jews, it may have been "some" Jews - nevertheless your characterization, whether intended or not, is bigoted, since it implies that the whole of the Jewish people is guilty or behind these acts and machinations. 

[Bar Kochba]

Yun,

It is a matter of relativity. I gave an example of Frank Dorm being caught by CHinese near Jinan of Shandong as a 'White Russian' spy. I also have another count of an American reporter caught near Wuhan as a same kind of spy. Chinese knew at the time that Russians and Russian Jews were predominantly carrying colored eyes, while assuming that Americans did not. The reason Americans did not have this predominant colored eyes is that it was melting pot with people all from the world. And, White Russians were the lackies of Japanese Kwantung Army during WWII by the way.

Jews were a complex phenomenon. Somebody needs to do a DNA test to determine their lineage. There was a prevalent school of thought on websites with a claim that Khazer Turks of Central Asia had converted to Judaism on a wholesale scale, and that the Jews who went to Eastern Europe were the desendants of Khazer Turks and Europeans. That explained why today's Jews in Israel were compeletely different from their Arab neighbors. They supposed to be two branches of the same big family 2500 years ago.

Ricci matterI could not discount his talks altogether. But someone who knows Italian needs to do some corroboration.

There are in fact numerous genetic studies. Reading your first post, I was unsure about your background - perhaps you are just very nationalistic and patriotic, but after reading several of your posts it is clear that you are a consumer of anti-Semitic writings. Many, many millions of Jews have been murdered, tortured, raped, pillaged, enslaved, and exiled throughout history. The hundreds of thousands of Jewish peasants slaughtered in pogroms certainly had nothing to do with global conspiracies. Why do you feel the need to incriminate innocent people. All I can say is that the Jews have survived the persecutions of the Ancient Egyptians, Philistines, Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, Greeks, Romans, Arabs, Mongols, Turks, European Crusaders, the English, the Cossacks, Tsarist Russia, Nazis, the Soviet Union etc. Many have tried to destroy the Jewish people, but all have utterly failed and to this day there are still Jews observing the teachings and rites of their ancestors thousands of years ago.

[rocket7777]

"I wonder if there are still relatively-pure Jews in the world nowadays."

Only african can be pure since everyone else have 4% neanderthal. genetics.

 

But jews are probably only people that can so call remain "pure" in the presence of huge population.

They has something like a caste system even among their tribe system.

[Korin]

"I wonder if there are still relatively-pure Jews in the world nowadays."

Only african can be pure since everyone else have 4% neanderthal. genetics.

 

But jews are probably only people that can so call remain "pure" in the presence of huge population.

They has something like a caste system even among their tribe system.

 

How is the non africans people have 4% neanderthal? In the topic about it, they said that we are 98% close to them and we made them go extinct. So how is all non africans which is just bullshit because all humans are traced back to Africa via the Outta Africa system that I read on wikipedia. So all humans are 'pure' ? Which is more bullshit because according to people that told me we are 98% Neanderthal but I think we have other worldy DNA in us.

 

So all humans are African, so obviously we are all 'pure' - can anybody battle this judgement?

[mohistManiac]

How is the non africans people have 4% neanderthal? In the topic about it, they said that we are 98% close to them and we made them go extinct. So how is all non africans which is just bullshit because all humans are traced back to Africa via the Outta Africa system that I read on wikipedia. So all humans are 'pure' ? Which is more bullshit because according to people that told me we are 98% Neanderthal but I think we have other worldy DNA in us.

 

So all humans are African, so obviously we are all 'pure' - can anybody battle this judgement?

 

Non Africans today have already blended with the Neanderthals to the point their genetics amount to only 4 percent of total human genetics.  That means something like a neanderthal trait like supersized brain and interestingly having something like a very thick nasallly appearance might mean you have more Neanderthal.  However the Neanderthal and the modern human had extremely close variation.  It means the human and Neanderthal were made of the same genetic stuffs that were only separate in ingredients by about 2 percent of the genetic material raw material.  The differences in humans today are largely the differences absorbed by the AFricans that went on their journey and discovered various non modern humans waiting for them.

[Korin]

Hahaha, I knew that humans were from Africa--the Africans that left on a journey to explore the rest of the world mated with non modern humans, and thus we have today's humans.

 

But why did modern humans before they went on their journey, and the ones who decided to stay - why did they split? And why did the Modern humans made the Neanderthals go extinct? 

[ghostexorcist]

How is the non africans people have 4% neanderthal? In the topic about it, they said that we are 98% close to them and we made them go extinct. So how is all non africans which is just bullshit because all humans are traced back to Africa via the Outta Africa system that I read on wikipedia. So all humans are 'pure' ? Which is more bullshit because according to people that told me we are 98% Neanderthal but I think we have other worldy DNA in us.

 

So all humans are African, so obviously we are all 'pure' - can anybody battle this judgement?

 

I already answered that on the other thread. You can see it here:

 

http://www.chinahist...thal/?p=5012367

 

This is a thread about Jews in China. Let's restrict the discussion to that.

[ahxiang]

There are in fact numerous genetic studies. Reading your first post, I was unsure about your background - perhaps you are just very nationalistic and patriotic, but after reading several of your posts it is clear that you are a consumer of anti-Semitic writings. Many, many millions of Jews have been murdered, tortured, raped, pillaged, enslaved, and exiled throughout history. The hundreds of thousands of Jewish peasants slaughtered in pogroms certainly had nothing to do with global conspiracies. Why do you feel the need to incriminate innocent people. All I can say is that the Jews have survived the persecutions of the Ancient Egyptians, Philistines, Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, Greeks, Romans, Arabs, Mongols, Turks, European Crusaders, the English, the Cossacks, Tsarist Russia, Nazis, the Soviet Union etc. Many have tried to destroy the Jewish people, but all have utterly failed and to this day there are still Jews observing the teachings and rites of their ancestors thousands of years ago.

 

 

[Removal of Jewish conspiracy theory comments by Supermod.]

[mohistManiac]

[comment removed by supermod]

 

I have some other thoughts about it.  The monotheism of the west appears to me was a cultimation of practices in Egypt when pharoah Ahkenaten rose to power and declared his cult of one true god to be the only religion that was necessary.  His name literally means embodiment of the Aten and Aten means the sun disk which is an aspect of the synthesis of the gods into one.  Moses is believed to have arisen during this time period and his tribes having competed with the Egyptians for the honor and riches of carrying the Aten soon left the Nile valley to seek their fortunes elsewhere and to create their own temples.  I doubt any place had monotheism before the Egyptians did.  The word atom is a congnate of the the Aten or Aton.  I find it interesting attention has "aten" in it.  Ahkenaten was soon name Amenhotep and meaning Amun is satisfied became the ending phrase by which Christians end their prayers.  Amun was the king of the gods in Egyptian pantheon long before Egypt was invaded by a great conglomeration of tribes further east.

[ghostexorcist]

I would like to remind posters that this thread is called "Jews in China." Let's not get too hung on the origins of Judaism or any conspiracy theories associated with them. I would prefer that the history of these people in China be the main focus of any further discussion.