254 replies to this topic

[qrasy]

The Chinese government now recognizes Jews as an official Chinese ethnic group.

I want to ask you: What ethnicity now do P.R. of China assign to Jews? Is it Hui Zu? Han Zu? Man Zu?

[General_Zhaoyun]

I want to ask you: What ethnicity now do P.R. of China assign to Jews? Is it Hui Zu? Han Zu? Man Zu?

The chinese jews are called Han Zu (han-chinese), because many have actually intermingled and mixed into the han-chinese. The han-chinese are in fact a mixed 'ethnic group' absorbing other foreign ethnicity into them.

There is a chinese article about history of Jews in China at
http://www.china.org...uwai/187324.htm

[浪淘音]

i love how you guys assume any ethnic group small or large moving into China(temporarily or permanently) automatically mixes with the general Han population so basically we're all of a sudden "jewish". The jews who moved into China came as merchants (no different than the international bussinessman today). even if some of them intermarried, its laughable how you guys think jewish blood would diffuse into every single han

this type of mumbo jumbo is almost as bad as nazi race science(its just as extreme, only difference is that it is in the opposite direction)

i know an algerian guy who visited China, i guess we all have algerian blood now

by the way General Zhaoyun, every single ethnic group today is mixed in some way. i'd like for you to show me genetic studies that prove Han are more mixed than others. studies of Y chromosome haplogroups are relatively consistent in both North and Southern Han.

[MengTzu]

i love how you guys assume any ethnic group small or large moving into China(temporarily or permanently) automatically mixes with the general Han population so basically we're all of a sudden "jewish". The jews who moved into China came as merchants (no different than the international bussinessman today). even if some of them intermarried, its laughable how you guys think jewish blood would diffuse into every single han

Nobody here at all suggests this. The only thing similar was said by Damo: that Hakka is no more Jewish than any other Chinese ethnicity. But this does not mean that every Chinese is Jewish -- it means that Hakka is NO MORE Jewish than any other Chinese ethnicity. I'm no more Divine than you, but that doesn't mean we are both Divine -- neither of us is, but the statement that I'm no more so is still true.

Read very carefully before responding next time.

Even the most Jew today seem mixed with Europeans.. I wonder if there are still relatively-pure Jews in the world nowadays.

Be very careful about your wording. There is no such thing as "Jewish blood." Jewishness is, above all, a religious heritage. Anyone, such as you and I, can convert to Judaism and become true Jews, according to Orthodox Judaism (we won't have a tribal affiliation, but we would nonetheless be Israelites.) Unlike some religions where religious identity is obtained only through conversion, Judaism has another means in addition: that a person born of a Jewish mother is automatically a Jew, and has no need of conversion if I'm not mistaken. But this doesn't mean Jewishness is a blood (for example, having a Gentile father and a Jewish mother doesn't make a person half-Jewish -- he's fully Jewish.) Thus Jewishness is strictly a religious definition according to Orthodox Judaism.

You need to be careful especially since the Nazi argued that Jewishness is a race, and this idea has been discredited by both religious Judaism (which obviously holds different definitions) and secular academia (which doesn't want any affiliation with Nazism, besides finding the Nazi definition impossible.) Let's not open the can of worms known as Nazism that was opened recently on CHF.

[Ziwei]

Don't tell Adolf that Hakka are related to the Jews ... SHHHH!



This is the first time I have heard someone said this. Wonder where this idea comes from.

P.S Hakka are not that great at finance. Hakka are the best at growing stuff and industrial minded. Teochew ... now those guys are friggin business master. Did you know that if you are born teochew you automatically get a 2 year exemption off a 4 year Bachelor of Business ? IT'S TRUE!

I'm a pure teochew from at least 3 generations on both sides of my parentage. May i know where can i find more info abt this 'exemption' ? haha sounds like a gooodie way to get exemptions and i'm curious abt it Never knew i'm goodat business though

[TMPikachu]

"There is no such thing as "Jewish blood." Jewishness is, above all, a religious heritage. "

I think that in theory, yeah, but I feel that in practice, there is something that could be called 'jewish blood'

It's like... the Norse Gods. Only the nordic people followed the norse gods, it was a sort of regional thing that a certain people indentified with

well, nowadays I guess somebody can 'convert' to being Jewish, but I still feel like there is definitely something that can be called Jewish blood.

[warlordgeneral]

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Edited by warlordgeneral, 31 March 2013 - 04:40 AM.

[Yun]

Warlordgeneral, cool it. Personal attacks on another member are never justified no matter how racist or ultranationalistic that member may seem to you. Next time, report the post to the staff and let them deal with it. Yang Zongbao has already given you an official warning for flaming 浪淘音 on another thread.

DavidG and Boarhuntr,

The theory that the Hakka first migrated from the north at the beginning of the Age of Fragmentation, and that the Hakka language is more like ancient Chinese than other dialects, is not beyond question. I encourage you to read this long thread on the Hakka: http://www.chinahist...?showtopic=6774

Especially the first few posts and the last post by myself citing Leong Sow-theng's arguments. Leong believes that the Hakka migration occurred mainly in the Southern Song, and that the Hakka language was actually a southern language spoken by the She people in that area even before the Hakka moved in.

[shunyadragon]

I'm Hakka and there are no relations that I am aware. However, comparisons have been made between the Jews and the Hakkas, could this be what you friend mean?

If you go back far enough we are all related...

The blood relationship between the Hakka and the Hebrew tribes is basically all humanity are cousins and we have the same blood relationships. This si the simplest true principle that is tough for people to realize.

[urofpersia]

DavidG and Boarhuntr,

The theory that the Hakka first migrated from the north at the beginning of the Age of Fragmentation, and that the Hakka language is more like ancient Chinese than other dialects, is not beyond question. I encourage you to read this long thread on the Hakka: http://www.chinahist...?showtopic=6774

Especially the first few posts and the last post by myself citing Leong Sow-theng's arguments. Leong believes that the Hakka migration occurred mainly in the Southern Song, and that the Hakka language was actually a southern language spoken by the She people in that area even before the Hakka moved in.

I quite agree with Yun. Leong Sow-theng is not the only one with an alternative theory, one which I happen to think have more than a grain of truth to it. Given my limited reading at the moment, Hakka as an ethnicity certainly was an intermingling of both Han and She (or Bai Yue's descendants in Southern China) I havent read enough to say whether the Hakka migration was mainly only during the Southern Song, but my recent readings suggests 客 ke as a term used to describe what became the Hakka people was first used during the Song dynasty (North or South I cant remember) and not in Ming or Early Qing as I previously thought. Once I feel I have done enough reading I may share my thoughts on the Hakka thread, but probably not anytime soon due to too much travelling.

The problem with researching into the origins of the Hakka is there is an undercurrent of Hakka chauvinism or in some cases scholars taking what has been 'established' before without questioning whether could the information be wrong so there is quite a bit of published material which lists down the origin of the Hakka as from the Western Jin (西晋） as fact. In a way I guess it is unavoidable and a lot of history is like that.

[lifezard]

Nobody here at all suggests this. The only thing similar was said by Damo: that Hakka is no more Jewish than any other Chinese ethnicity. But this does not mean that every Chinese is Jewish -- it means that Hakka is NO MORE Jewish than any other Chinese ethnicity. I'm no more Divine than you, but that doesn't mean we are both Divine -- neither of us is, but the statement that I'm no more so is still true.

Read very carefully before responding next time.
Be very careful about your wording. There is no such thing as "Jewish blood." Jewishness is, above all, a religious heritage. Anyone, such as you and I, can convert to Judaism and become true Jews, according to Orthodox Judaism (we won't have a tribal affiliation, but we would nonetheless be Israelites.) Unlike some religions where religious identity is obtained only through conversion, Judaism has another means in addition: that a person born of a Jewish mother is automatically a Jew, and has no need of conversion if I'm not mistaken. But this doesn't mean Jewishness is a blood (for example, having a Gentile father and a Jewish mother doesn't make a person half-Jewish -- he's fully Jewish.) Thus Jewishness is strictly a religious definition according to Orthodox Judaism.

You need to be careful especially since the Nazi argued that Jewishness is a race, and this idea has been discredited by both religious Judaism (which obviously holds different definitions) and secular academia (which doesn't want any affiliation with Nazism, besides finding the Nazi definition impossible.) Let's not open the can of worms known as Nazism that was opened recently on CHF.

pardon me for asking... for I have not seen a person in modern day who does that... is it true that one can convert to Judaism and hence become a Jew? much like 1 can covert to Christianity or Islam?

because I ve always thought being Jewish means you have to be related by blood all the way back to Abraham?

will appreciate any clarification

[sg_han]

pardon me for asking... for I have not seen a person in modern day who does that... is it true that one can convert to Judaism and hence become a Jew? much like 1 can covert to Christianity or Islam?

because I ve always thought being Jewish means you have to be related by blood all the way back to Abraham?

will appreciate any clarification

ya you can ...you can define a jew by his race or in terms of religion

there are singaporean christian converts to judaism ...

[Elisha]

ya you can ...you can define a jew by his race or in terms of religion

there are singaporean christian converts to judaism ...

Yup, except that in practice, it seems that race has a priority.

An aside. For example, jews who believe in Jesus as their Messiah are known as Messianic Jews or Christians. As I understand it, they are referred more as Messianic Jews. But I think perhaps this is an exception in the terminology - more of an indication of their conversion. They also seem to recognise themselves first as Jews - descendants of Abraham.

Edited by Elisha, 25 July 2006 - 08:28 AM.

[urofpersia]

pardon me for asking... for I have not seen a person in modern day who does that... is it true that one can convert to Judaism and hence become a Jew? much like 1 can covert to Christianity or Islam?

because I ve always thought being Jewish means you have to be related by blood all the way back to Abraham?

will appreciate any clarification

You can convert to Judaism. The details I am not familiar with but I have this on authority from friends in the US because I asked the very same question quite some years ago.