45 replies to this topic

[HaSY]

which is better?chinese or european armor?
which dynasty has the best armor?
what r the types of armor that the chinese used?

[浪淘音]

i'm too lazy to look them up right now but theres already multiple threads regarding the subject of Chinese armor

Euro armor was far too heavy which slowed down cavalry and cavalry relies on speed for striking power. plus, euro armor was not THAT protective, a Chinese/Steppe Nomad composite bow could cut through euro style armor at 200 yards easily.

[Starfire]

Basically, both European and Oriental armour were developed to counter the weapons they would face on the battlefield. You can say one type of European armour was better than a certain type of Oriental armour in some specific ways and vice versa, but I think a broad generalisation of which is better would be neither accurate nor, frankly, possible.

[Gubook Janggoon]

Agree with you totally there Starfire. Each one has its ups and its downs. There really isn't a "Best Kind" of anything.

[General_Zhaoyun]

Even the most 'protective' European plate armour can still be pierced through by cross-bow bolts or bow arrows. The chinese armour was light and was combined to give mobility for cavalry ride. I would say the chinese armor makes a good balance on speed and protectiveness.

[TMPikachu]

As much as I hate to say, European armor surpassed that used in the East. The latest forms of plate armor made the wearer pretty much impervious to sword blows, you'd have to nail him with a powerful crossbow bolt, a pick, a polearm, a greatsword or a gun pretty hard to bring him down. No part of the body was exposed (well, a little so you can see, but not much). Anything that can penetrate the plate of the late rennaissance will penetrate any Chinese armor.
The tailor made form fitting plate armors are pretty much the pinnacle of armor design. They were around 70lbs at most, distributed well throughout the body. A wearer could move well in them, though the armor gets tiring to wear as it has no ventilation (bad for hot weather).

If you want it lighter, it came lighter, in forms where it was just torso, pauldrons, and skirt.

For sheer protective value and skill, Europeans eventually had better armourers.

Then again, I've never seen a set of 'real' Chinese lion armor before. Shian Wei Kia, Mountain pattern scale, whatever it's called.
That could be an armor that could be seen as 'equal' to plate armor, with its ingenius design of interlocking scales.


My favorite is the armour of the Tang and the Ming. The Tang for their dragon/beast head sleaves, and the ming for just making cool mountain pattern armour.

when it comes down to it really, I can't say. It's just that I've NEVER seen a real version of this armour, I've seen real versions of European armour, which makes the latter more attractive.

[Borjigin Ayurbarwada]

"plus, euro armor was not THAT protective, a Chinese/Steppe Nomad composite bow could cut through euro style armor at 200 yards easily. ""Even the most 'protective' European plate armour can still be pierced through by cross-bow bolts or bow arrows."


No, the top plate armour of the 16th century was virtually invulnerable to anything other than axe and clubs,(which is used to deform the armour and not piercing it) it could even prevent a bullet from 200 yards. Combosite bows would not even make a mark on it in 200 yard in fact even in just 50 yards it is unlikely to penetrate, and even if a good angle shot pierced it, the mail inside would still deflect the bolt and preventing any damage.
No sword can cut through plate armour except one; The Zhan ma Dao.
This have been tested by Plate armour experts which used the swords from all the different civilizations ranging from the Katana and the Teutonic cutting swords to the islamic curved swords all haven't made the slightest impression. Only the Zhan Ma Dao with its design especially used for cutting through heavy armour hacked through the arm of the knight and even that didn't pierce the mail, but perhaps broke the person's bone inside, after all Zhan Ma Dao is also more of a smashing weapon than cutting. Yet when the Zhan Ma Dao is swung at the helmet of the knight the helmet got squashed and the wooden figure inside had its head shattered which the expert say would happen to a real person if hit. But the Zhan Ma Dao is an extremely heavy weapon and impractical to use except highly trained men that are in loose formation so they can swing the weapon with room. Thus it only made a small part of the army.

European armour can be said to be decisively superior by the late 15th century with the invention of full plate armour, but the coming of firearms didn't make them the deadly weapons that they would have become. The only negative aspects of this armour is its unbearable heat and inflexibility in the front and back as well as time to put on, other than that, if one weres it and goes to combat, he is virtually immortal.

[Liang Jieming]

I have to agree. I believe European armour to be generally superior in terms of protection to the wearer than Chinese armour. This doesn't reflect an inferiority in Chinese armour as many pro-western military enthusiasts seem to like pointing out. It's a reflection of fighting styles and emphasis. Chinese military arts has always emphasized mobility over strength. Western fighting places great emphasis on taking and absorbing the blow. The eastern fighting technic talks more about avoidance and hence the belief that the easterner is weak and cowardly.

I refer back to my example of the red ant vs. the black ant. Both are superior fighters. Just different.

[Liang Jieming]

[HaSY]

how this type of armor offer protection from?
is this armor light?

[Yun]

It's brigandine - leather (with a cloth cover) that has metal plates riveted to the inside. Hence the many studs on the surface - those are rivets. This became the standard armour for Qing bannerman cavalry. The metal plate on the chest is for extra protection. I think brigandine was effective against swords and arrows, and to some extent against matchlock bullets.

[caocao74]

It's brigandine - leather (with a cloth cover) that has metal plates riveted to the inside. Hence the many studs on the surface - those are rivets. This became the standard armour for Qing bannerman cavalry. The metal plate on the chest is for extra protection. I think brigandine was effective against swords and arrows, and to some extent against matchlock bullets.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Regarding the cloth cover you mentioned. In the photograph provided by HaSy I can't tell whether or not the cloth is dyed. Is it dyed, and if so, would the colour be chosen to represent the particular banner the soldier was attached to?

[TMPikachu]

Wow, so only the Zhanmadao actually cut through armor? Interesting. Where was this test done?

Also, that picture of brigandine has the plates removed I believe. Probably a set of court 'armour'.

I wouldn't say the red/black ant is too good an example though. Red ants win by numbers, and brings up the image of the 'horde' that is usually attributed to Asian warfare.

[caocao74]

Also, that picture of brigandine has the plates removed I believe. Probably a set of court 'armour'.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yun mentioned that the plates are actually on the inside of the leather.

[TMPikachu]

That's how it normall would be, but many fancier looking suits just had studs sown to cloth to give the look. In the book "Oriental Armour" I finally saw a suit with plates still intact, and it looks much more solid and stuff compared to every other one I had seen (which usually mention the plates are removed)