89 replies to this topic

[HaSY]

the chinese dao have been used in most Chinese armies and have been known for their strength,hard hitting and power which is better than jian........

before katana is developed,the japanese still used chinese straight swords.....after the katana is introduced,the chinese swords were less used and katana become the samurai's favourite weapon for its cutting strength such as slicing the bamboo without much difficulty.......
in your opinion....which is better?dao or katana?

[Wú Fēi]

It's hard to tell...; basically, different usage for different circumstances.

[Yang Zongbao]

Well, it'd be folly to consider all Dao one and the Same and all katana one and the same.
But never forget that Katana, Tachi, and To all have "Dao" as their kanji.

There were good Dao, and there were good Katana. There were terrible katana, and terrible Dao. So it's not going to be clear-cut what the answer would be. Too many factors.

But think. They all accomplish the purpose of cutting, correct?

Please don't get caught up in the martial arts stereotype that Dao is only good for heavy cutting and Jian is only good for light thrusting. Truth be told, either of them can do the job, though I'd see how curved dao are better designed for cutting.

Actually, the Katana didn't happen to be just introduced all of a sudden. It wasn't created in a night. It evolved from the Continental Dao in use by Tang and Korean armies, which used the blade form known as "Kiriha Zukuri" in Japanese. The katana pictured in most peoples minds are actually another evolution of the Continental Dao, and maybe would be in more use if the Turko-Mongol Saber Form didn't displace them. So the Katana isn't actually that unique from other Asian Culture's weapons. Just a forgotten branch of the family.

Oh, I know you were just shortening it, but I don't think that any Japanese passersby would appreciate the way you worded them as "Japanese"...please be a little more considerate, even if you didn't have bad intent. Thanks!

[Yun]

Yep, I've also been told that the katana was just a form of the Chinese zhidao 直刀 with a curve, using essentially the same swordmaking techniques. The Chinese seem to have moved towards the Turko-Mongol curved sabre form for cavalry and the flared qudao 曲刀 for infantry from the Song dynasty onwards, however. When the Japanese 'pirates' were fighting Ming government troops on the southeastern coast, the Ming troops began adopting the katana and no-dachi (two-handed long sword) as the wodao 倭刀, and thus arose the idea that the sword was uniquely Japanese.

Refer to Thomas Chen's site:
http://thomaschen.fr...com/photo2.html

[浪淘音]

the "katana" used be referred to by Japanese in Kanji as 唐樣大刀 (sword of the Tang style)

they have HUNDREDS of CHinese blades on display in Japanese palaces

[Mod edit: picture hotlinks removed because the linked server does not allow remote linking]

Edited by Yun, 05 February 2005 - 12:56 PM.

[Wú Fēi]

Sorry to say all the info above is incomplete. If anyone can read in Centerian, please go to http://www.hfsword.c...gi/leoboard.cgi . I think it's a little more professional site. And the following is their new forum: http://kiven0517.u6....om/hfsword/bbs/ .

[HaSY]

Oh, I know you were just shortening it, but I don't think that any Japanese passersby would appreciate the way you worded them as "Japanese"...please be a little more considerate, even if you didn't have bad intent. Thanks!

i apologised for my mistake....

which is heavier?zhanmadao or katana?is pudao and zhanmadao are the same?

[TMPikachu]

Zhanmadao may be a bit heavier, then again i've heard that name applied to a dozen swords...

Personally I think I like the dao more, the ones in saber form. They've got that neat curve on the handle that makes thrusting easier, katanas don't.

I've also heard of records where Ming marines stated that the two handed swords (nodachi) used by Japanese pirates were more effective than their one handed dao.
But two handed swords and one handed swords exist in both country's armouries, and at that time the Chinese continental sword had went through some decline (shoddy workmanship and such).

[Yun]

is pudao and zhanmadao are the same?

In the Qing dynasty, they were the same - BTW, it's pronounced podao, not pudao.

But in the Song dynasty, the zhanmadao was rather different. See Thomas Chen's analysis on http://thomaschen.fr...om/catalog.html

The zhanmadao is definitely heavier than the katana - it's a two-handed weapon, while the katana is one-handed. Between the no-dachi and the zhanmadao, however, I'm not sure which one would be heavier.

[TMPikachu]

katanas are usually held two handed, but can be used one handed too
(but you need to spend a feat on an Exotic Weapon Proficiency!)

[HaSY]

katanas are usually held two handed, but can be used one handed too
(but you need to spend a feat on an Exotic Weapon Proficiency!)

this is confusing to me......i thought katanas are heavy when they are held two-handed.....

[Yun]

Look at it this way - the zhanmadao was meant to chop the legs of horses. The katana is a weapon that is mainly used against people. The samurai wore their katana with the blade facing up in the scabbard so that when they drew it with one hand, they could immediately slash their attacker with a downward stroke. So clearly the one-handed use of the katana was also quite important.

[TMPikachu]

the Katana is also a dueling weapon. On the battlefield, one uses the spear and bow, katana as a last resort or challenge.

The Zhanmadao was a primary weapon in the battlefield, capable of cutting through iron armor (which the Katana cannot). A better comparison would be to the no-dachi

[浪淘音]

Look at it this way - the zhanmadao was meant to chop the legs of horses. The katana is a weapon that is mainly used against people. The samurai wore their katana with the blade facing up in the scabbard so that when they drew it with one hand, they could immediately slash their attacker with a downward stroke. So clearly the one-handed use of the katana was also quite important.

the katana clearly has roots in Chinese swords especially During Tang China

can anyone providing information as to the roots of the draw style that Samurais use. Is it rooted in Chinese draw styles for proto-katana blades used in China.

i practice sword play/fencing alot but i use Jian in which the draw style is NOT from the hip but the left hand holding the scabbard

[Yang Zongbao]

Pudao does not equal Zhan Ma Dao.
Katanas could be used one handed or two handed.

I'm not sure about the Katana's armor penetration ability, but I wouldn't say it was incapable of penetrating iron armor...if it was a high quality blade.