89 replies to this topic

[Borjigin Ayurbarwada]

btw, Zhanmadao isn't just used by the Song, Ming and Qing. The Yuan used it too. Kublai was able to deploy Chinese infantry to a much more effective degree than his predecessors which depended almost solely on cavalry. In the battle Kublai faught with Kaidu and his mongolian collision. Kublai made his Han infantry dismount. When Kaidu's cavalry came near they were dismounted by the Han infantry and once they fell they became the immdediate prey of the Chinese swordsmen.

[TMPikachu]

I'm not sure about the Katana's armor penetration ability, but I wouldn't say it was incapable of penetrating iron armor...if it was a high quality blade.

katanas, the most recent incarnation of them, are 'draw-cut' blades. They shear through flesh and bone by the blade making contact, then being 'pulled'. Kinda like cutting a big vegetable by laying the blade on top, then sliding it back. It just draws through it. That kind of cut won't go through iron though. I guess you could chop, but it wouldn't be that effective.
I've heard that the usual method of fighting armor was, if possible, shear off the straps holding the lamellar together, or thrust and strike with the tip.

I figure the no-dachi had to have been used against armor, so could it cut through armor too?

And is it only the straight-edge zhanmadao that cuts through armor?

[Starfire]

this is confusing to me......i thought katanas are heavy when they are held two-handed.....

I assume you mean that you think katans must be heavy as they are held in a two-handed grip.

You'll find that the katana is held very losely with the left hand, with the right hand above it bearing most of the weight (that is, if one is right-handed). The left hand mainly assists in control.

[caocao74]

this is confusing to me......i thought katanas are heavy when they are held two-handed.....

If you read the Book of Five Rings by the 16th/17th Century ronin swordsman Miyamoto Musashi he advocates that a competent swordsman needs to be able to handle two swords simultaneously, since it created larger arcs of motion and effectiveness.

[Zuo Zongtang]

is pudao and zhanmadao are the same?

PuDao




Zhanmadao(bottom)

[HaSY]

y pudao looks like guandao geh?

[TMPikachu]

I've also seen pudao with a 1:1 blade:grip ratio too. It seems to vary.

[HaSY]

is dao same with parang?

[Yun]

A parang is a type of Malay single-edged knife for clearing vegetation. I would say that essentially it looks similar to a dao, but is shorter.

[HaSY]

A parang is a type of Malay single-edged knife for clearing vegetation. I would say that essentially it looks similar to a dao, but is shorter.

for clearing vegetation?does it used for the actual combat in South East Asia other than keris?

[Yang Zongbao]

Sounds like a machete.
But I would think that the Parang would be a little more utility oriented than the Dao, which is specifically meant to kill others.

[zuwairi]

Parang had multipurpose use for malay people. It also used at war normally it cooperate with spear (tombak) and kris.

[Yun]

Yes, the kris/keris is the Malay dagger, which often had a wavy blade. It was much more prestigious than the parang as a weapon. Zuwairi, can you give us a picture of the kris?

Welcome to CHF, Zuwairi - are you Malay?

[Wujiang]

Actually, the Zhanmadao, Pudao, Dadao and others in the big dao family had their name change over the ages and depending on where you are. For example, the Pudao shown by Zuo Zongtang could have been the dadao in other parts of China and would have been known as the dadao by the mid-qing dynasty. All the same while the 'pudao' of the time would have been a sword with a smaller handle you would expect to see on a common sword but with a massive blade.

One must understand that nothing back then was strictly standardized. The design of the weapon depended greatly on the army it equips. So if a general wanted a longer handle for the Song dynasty Zhanmadao, chances are he would just continue to call it Zhanmadao despite the fact that we may consider it to be a different weapon already.

[Yun]

Good point, Wujiang. Apparently, during the Taiping Rebellion the Qing infantry and the Taiping rebels were carrying the same weapon, but for one it was called the Zhanmadao and for the other the Podao (and later got the name Taiping dao).

But why does no one take me seriously when I point out that the 'Pudao' is actually pronounced as 'Podao'?