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Many White Americans originated from Germany?


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#31 mariusj

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 01:49 AM

Where did you get that figure from? Are you referring to the states with large Spanish-speaking populations? I would say "American" is best descriptive of the language spoken here. Each "English" speaking country has vastly different sub-dialects and slang terms. They tend to absorb the languages of the countries around them. Hence, the Brits speak “British,” the Australians speak “Australian,” etc. I bet if you take the average American (whatever that is) and plop them in the middle of a cockney neighbor in England, they would barely understand a single word of the local language.

The base for "American" may be English, but many of our words have come from the base languages of the immigrants who have prospered here--including Spanish, German, Dutch, Chinese, and you can even throw some "Ebonics" in too.


Funny.

If you take a Shanghainese man and drop him in Sichuan, he would understand very very few. I know.
But does that mean they are not speaking Chinese?

Same thing in America
We speak English.

#32 One time poster

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 01:58 AM

Indeed. Every language is like that. Americans come to believe that there is only one proper way to speak because that is the "Standard" way. It's the same with for other languages. It's different in different regions, but a standard is encouraged so that there is consistency. Usually standards are based on the way the language is spoken in the capital cities, but in America's case I'm not quite sure where the standard originated from.

#33 fireball

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 04:23 AM

Indeed. Every language is like that. Americans come to believe that there is only one proper way to speak because that is the "Standard" way. It's the same with for other languages. It's different in different regions, but a standard is encouraged so that there is consistency. Usually standards are based on the way the language is spoken in the capital cities, but in America's case I'm not quite sure where the standard originated from.


In U.S., I think there are a few regional centered. However, the best (respectable) accents would probably be from the New England states most likely, especially from Boston areas. New York accent and the Texas accents were considered a bit funny and NOT very proper, but they are OK because the people from both placed are probably very wealthy or very tough or both, so you will NOT want to mess with them!!! :arrogant^: :nunchucks: Due to the Hollywood movies and TV programs, California English is also very popular, and the Valley accent (NOT the typical California accent, but just from one area) is considered both wealthy and totally airheaded (very low intelligence like Paris Hilton)!!! Then, there is the Southern accents, and it means different things to different people. To some, it means gentlemenly and ladylike and warm. To the others (especially to the Northerners) ... well... it means it's a bit back countried. Most Americans in the major cities try to speak something more neutral like a mixture of New England and California accents, unless they want to give a certain impression to others.

#34 LongMa

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 12:14 PM

In U.S., I think there are a few regional centered. However, the best (respectable) accents would probably be from the New England states most likely, especially from Boston areas. New York accent and the Texas accents were considered a bit funny and NOT very proper, but they are OK because the people from both placed are probably very wealthy or very tough or both, so you will NOT want to mess with them!!! :arrogant^: :nunchucks: Due to the Hollywood movies and TV programs, California English is also very popular, and the Valley accent (NOT the typical California accent, but just from one area) is considered both wealthy and totally airheaded (very low intelligence like Paris Hilton)!!! Then, there is the Southern accents, and it means different things to different people. To some, it means gentlemenly and ladylike and warm. To the others (especially to the Northerners) ... well... it means it's a bit back countried. Most Americans in the major cities try to speak something more neutral like a mixture of New England and California accents, unless they want to give a certain impression to others.



That common American English is typically called "Mid Atlantic" but reality is it is spoken from Western Pennsylvania all the way West into California (through central Ohio, Illinois, Nebraska, Iowa, etc) more or less. This is how people on TV typically speak as well. The North Eastern accents, from Philadelphia to Maine are not standard. The accents from Southern Virginia (Northern VIriginia near DC commonly speaks Standard Mid-Atlantic) all the way to Northern Florida and West to Central Texas can be described as "Southern" but people in places like Tennesee do not actually sound like people in Eastern Texas, there are different dialects of "Southern".

The West coast was the last area to be settled so it got a good mix and is fairly standard, there is that "Valley" accent but that is a very small minority of people, most people in California do not speak like that.

As was mentioned due to televsion and radio being standardized (or owned) at a national level and the fact AMericans move around more than ever...most people in major cities speak "Mid-Atlantic Standard"...for instance in Houston, Texas, in Washignton DC, in San Diego, in Chicago most people sound similar, there is some hint of regional dialect and the further you go outside the metro commutting area into smaller towns the more dialect you will here, but for the most part it is not anywhere near as strong as in the UK.

Mainly because Americans have historically been pretty mobile and it is a young country. We did not have hundreds of years of stagnant fiefdom where people in relative isolation from each others like in England to form strong dialects.

America was formed in 1776 (officially) and by the early 1900's we had radio, by the mid-1900 we had television and until after WWII most of the Western part of the nation but for Southern California was sparsly populated, so less than 200 years to diverge significantly. New England and the South East were settled first so they had longer, but for the most part we can understand each other fine...there are some places I've been in Kentcky and Texas where I had to ask people to repeat themselves mainly because they had a strong accent and spoke too fast, but these were very small towns.

http://en.wikipedia....tlantic_English

Edited by LongMa, 14 March 2008 - 12:16 PM.

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#35 ghostexorcist

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 02:20 PM

Funny.

If you take a Shanghainese man and drop him in Sichuan, he would understand very very few. I know.
But does that mean they are not speaking Chinese?

Same thing in America
We speak English.


My analogy was country to country, not country internal. In regards to Chinese, it would like taking a Beijinger and dropping them off in a Chinese community in Singapore.

Edited by ghostexorcist, 14 March 2008 - 02:22 PM.


#36 LongMa

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 02:25 PM

My analogy was country to country, not country internal. In regards to Chinese, it would like taking a Beijinger and dropping them off in a Chinese community in Singapore.


I think the comparison of China is off.

There is probably more difference between Mandarin and Shanghai dialect than Dutch and standard German or Spanish and Italian.

American English is not that diverse.

It is more than difference between Taipei and Beijing Mandarin.
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#37 Dakota

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Posted 24 December 2008 - 01:25 PM

Posted Image

Source: http://en.wikipedia..../White_american

I was interested in ancestry history of white Americans and founded an article in Wikipedia. It seems that the largest ethnic group for white americans have ancestry originated from Germany, which was the largest group followed by Anglo-Irish group. However, today white americans are really mixed.

I even read a history that there were even 'discrimination' policy during the 19th century, when large number of german immigrants migrated to US. There was even a time when German was to be adopted as US national language. Was this true? Can someone verify this history?



The Dutch settled in New York City And Eastern\Northern New Jersey. The "Dutch" of Penn. were mainly German and Swiss that were imported by England to settle the new colony in America. Yes they were discriminated against some of them originally settled in the Carolinas and left because of discrimination. Theese people joined there breteren in Penn. Both dutch and german are germantic languages so they could communicate with each other. More if you wish I am finding this out as i trace a part of my family.

#38 Dakota

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Posted 24 December 2008 - 01:30 PM

Here is a map of the ethnic makeup of the United States.

Posted Image





Yes, it is true that German immigrants who came to the United States in the mid to late 19th century were discriminated against. It was mostly because of their accent and culture which was different from the mostly Anglo-American culture at the time. Southern Germans were particularly discriminated against because they were Catholic. As for German being adopted as the official language...that's an urban legend. The United States during Revolutionary times was an English colony, and English was the de facto language.



#39 Dakota

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Posted 24 December 2008 - 01:34 PM

Here is a map of the ethnic makeup of the United States.

Posted Image





Yes, it is true that German immigrants who came to the United States in the mid to late 19th century were discriminated against. It was mostly because of their accent and culture which was different from the mostly Anglo-American culture at the time. Southern Germans were particularly discriminated against because they were Catholic. As for German being adopted as the official language...that's an urban legend. The United States during Revolutionary times was an English colony, and English was the de facto language.



No the Germans were mostly non catholics that were fleeing the Catholic church at the time Early 1700's. During the revolution there were many languages spoken in fact up until WWII many people still spoke there native languages

#40 Dakota

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Posted 24 December 2008 - 01:45 PM

Well there was ethnic discrimination against Germans and Irish.

The English/Scots Protestants held the political power in America (and actually still do for the most part but they have assimilated the Irish and Catholics to some extent although in the South East of the U.S. there is still anti-Catholic bias in some areas but not nearly as strong as in the past...).

I don't believe Germans were a majority, ever.

They were likely 2nd after the English/Scot. To my knoweledge, there was no movement in history to make German the national langauge as Germans were looked down on as "non-white" at the time of the countries founding all the way until the 1850's or so and Irish were treated even worse.
THe term "white" has expanded since the founding of the nation. White used to mean "Anglo-Scot" then it meant Anglo-Scot-GErman" then the Irish were added, then later the Italians (after WWI or so) then other European immigrants from the East. Today most Jews are considered white but for hard core white nationalist or some Southern whites who still see them as "non-white", but I don't think that opinion is mainstream anymore, it was in the 1950's.

Today on the census anyone is white if their ancestry is predominately from Europe and the Middle East/NOrth Africa.

In reality a Middle Eastern or North African person is only treated white if they can pass for European.

Here is an example.

Ralph Nader has ran for president a few times. He is a Christian Arab (Lebanese) but I've never heard anyone treat him as anything other than "white".

Posted Image

This guy on the other hand would never be considered "white" in America despite what the census says.


Posted Image

Learn some history People of German or Dutch decent were more populous than the english the Queen of England did not want to loose her people so she imported Germans and Swiss mostly but others as well to Penn and the Carolina this is why we have a large Neo-Nazi movement there.

#41 liuzg150181

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Posted 26 December 2008 - 12:37 AM

The Dutch settled in New York City And Eastern\Northern New Jersey. The "Dutch" of Penn. were mainly German and Swiss that were imported by England to settle the new colony in America. Yes they were discriminated against some of them originally settled in the Carolinas and left because of discrimination. Theese people joined there breteren in Penn. Both dutch and german are germantic languages so they could communicate with each other. More if you wish I am finding this out as i trace a part of my family.

But do you know that English language is also a Germanic language?
And AFAIK German language has several dialects, so are even closer to Dutch than main German language we know of.

Edited by liuzg150181, 26 December 2008 - 12:57 AM.


#42 liuzg150181

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Posted 26 December 2008 - 12:54 AM

Learn some history People of German or Dutch decent were more populous than the english the Queen of England did not want to loose her people so she imported Germans and Swiss mostly but others as well to Penn and the Carolina this is why we have a large Neo-Nazi movement there.

If by the Queen of England you are referring to is Queen Elizabeth I, then it isn't historically correct,since she passed away few years prior to the successful founding of the first english colony-Virginia Colony.

Edited by liuzg150181, 26 December 2008 - 12:55 AM.


#43 Bilge

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Posted 26 December 2008 - 05:20 AM

I think, they are not Germans! They all became Americans now!

(Do they see themselves as Germans?)
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#44 ShingenT

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Posted 26 December 2008 - 05:41 AM

please use the edit button.
do not spam the thread. :)
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#45 LongMa

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Posted 26 December 2008 - 06:49 AM

Learn some history People of German or Dutch decent were more populous than the english the Queen of England did not want to loose her people so she imported Germans and Swiss mostly but others as well to Penn and the Carolina this is why we have a large Neo-Nazi movement there.



You have large neo-nazi movements in Penn and Carolina today because of Germans who were imported there in the 18th century (over 150 years before Nazism)? That makes little sense. At the time those people came to America, there was no country called Germany.

It is like saying..."well California Chinese in San Francisco are predominately politically liberal because China is communist". That doesn't add up either.

Also, the vast majority of the Pennsylvania Dutch were "Deutsch" as in Germany. They were not from the Netherlands. At this time there was no German nationality it referred to the language they spoke..."Deutsch".

Which Queen of England are you referring to?
"That's One of the tragedies of this life - that the men who are most in need of a beating up are always enormous"

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