67 replies to this topic

[General_Zhaoyun]

Source: http://en.wikipedia..../White_american

I was interested in ancestry history of white Americans and founded an article in Wikipedia. It seems that the largest ethnic group for white americans have ancestry originated from Germany, which was the largest group followed by Anglo-Irish group. However, today white americans are really mixed.

I even read a history that there were even 'discrimination' policy during the 19th century, when large number of german immigrants migrated to US. There was even a time when German was to be adopted as US national language. Was this true? Can someone verify this history?

[kaiselin]

I am fairly certain that German was never adopted as a language for the US.

As for the German majority among white Americans, I may be wrong on this but the statistic seems a bit scewed. I am wondering if they were including the English because the English are anglo - saxan and have a strong connection to Germany. But to imply that they are German is not entirerly correct.

Edited by kaiselin, 07 March 2008 - 02:06 AM.

[polar_zen]

Here is a map of the ethnic makeup of the United States.

I even read a history that there were even 'discrimination' policy during the 19th century, when large number of german immigrants migrated to US. There was even a time when German was to be adopted as US national language. Was this true? Can someone verify this history?

Yes, it is true that German immigrants who came to the United States in the mid to late 19th century were discriminated against. It was mostly because of their accent and culture which was different from the mostly Anglo-American culture at the time. Southern Germans were particularly discriminated against because they were Catholic. As for German being adopted as the official language...that's an urban legend. The United States during Revolutionary times was an English colony, and English was the de facto language.

Edited by polar_zen, 07 March 2008 - 02:24 AM.

[Non-Han Nan Ban]

The United States during Revolutionary times was an English colony, and English was the de facto language.

Let's not forget that there were German communities and towns in North America since the 17th century, shortly after the first English settlements. Even during the Revolution, there were significantly large German communities. When the British used Hessian mercenaries to fight the rebels in the Revolutionary War, many of the Hessians deserted their ranks and joined the German communities that sponsored the Revolution (many upon persuasion by German Americans they were fighting).

Eric (En Rui)

[LongMa]

Well there was ethnic discrimination against Germans and Irish.

The English/Scots Protestants held the political power in America (and actually still do for the most part but they have assimilated the Irish and Catholics to some extent although in the South East of the U.S. there is still anti-Catholic bias in some areas but not nearly as strong as in the past...).

I don't believe Germans were a majority, ever.

They were likely 2nd after the English/Scot. To my knoweledge, there was no movement in history to make German the national langauge as Germans were looked down on as "non-white" at the time of the countries founding all the way until the 1850's or so and Irish were treated even worse.
THe term "white" has expanded since the founding of the nation. White used to mean "Anglo-Scot" then it meant Anglo-Scot-GErman" then the Irish were added, then later the Italians (after WWI or so) then other European immigrants from the East. Today most Jews are considered white but for hard core white nationalist or some Southern whites who still see them as "non-white", but I don't think that opinion is mainstream anymore, it was in the 1950's.

Today on the census anyone is white if their ancestry is predominately from Europe and the Middle East/NOrth Africa.

In reality a Middle Eastern or North African person is only treated white if they can pass for European.

Here is an example.

Ralph Nader has ran for president a few times. He is a Christian Arab (Lebanese) but I've never heard anyone treat him as anything other than "white".



This guy on the other hand would never be considered "white" in America despite what the census says.

[kaiselin]

Ralph Nader has ran for president a few times. He is a Christian Arab (Lebanese) but I've never heard anyone treat him as anything other than "white".

You are correct, I never once hear anything being said about Naders racial background. Perhaps because so many people did not really worry about him winning.

[DurstigerMann]

Yes, it is true that German immigrants who came to the United States in the mid to late 19th century were discriminated against. It was mostly because of their accent and culture which was different from the mostly Anglo-American culture at the time. Southern Germans were particularly discriminated against because they were Catholic. As for German being adopted as the official language...that's an urban legend. The United States during Revolutionary times was an English colony, and English was the de facto language.

The southern Germans also have strange habits!

As for the language thing, I agree. There were votes running in some parts of the US to adapt German as a second official language though.

[polar_zen]

Well, the United States has no first official language either.

[DurstigerMann]

English?

[JiG]

There was even a time when German was to be adopted as US national language. Was this true? Can someone verify this history?

Yes thats true, sorry I can't give you any sources but I've read this before in some collection of interesting historical facts. German was almost voted in to be adopted as the US national language sometime very early in American history. I think this might have been seen as a move to further distinguish themselves from the British maybe?

[Yun]

German Americans (German Deutschamerikaner) are citizens of the United States of ethnic German ancestry and currently form the largest ancestry group in the United States, accounting for 17% of the U.S. population.[2] The first significant numbers arrived in the 1680s in New York and Pennsylvania. Some eight million German immigrants entered the United States since then. Immigration continued in substantial numbers during the 19th century; the largest number of arrivals came 1840–1900. Germans form the largest group of immigrants coming to the U.S., outnumbering the Irish and English.[3] Some arrived seeking religious or political freedom, others for economic opportunities greater than those in Europe, and others simply for the chance to start afresh in the New World. California and Pennsylvania have the largest populations of German origin, with over six million German Americans residing in the two states alone.[4] Over 50 million people in the United States identify German as their ancestry[1]. In the 1990 U.S. census, 58 million Americans claimed to be solely or partially of German descent.[5] In Pennsylvania, English and German were co-official languages until around the time of World War I.[6]

http://en.wikipedia....German_American

[LongMa]

http://en.wikipedia....German_American

1840–1900. Germans form the largest group of immigrants coming to the U.S., outnumbering the Irish and English.

First, for those not familiar with America there are some warning signs in this data.

America was officially founded in 1776, way before 1840. I still have seen no evidence that Germans were a majority or even close to it in the American colonies outside of Pennsylvania, 1/13 colonies that made up the first states.

Another thing to determine is how do they consider who is German? Are they doing it by last name? Are they doing it by survey?

I was born in Western Ohio and there were a lot of Germans who settled there but most white people I know from there do not say "I'm German"...it is usually "oh I'm part Irish, German, English, blah blah Shawnee Indian, blah blah"

How do they categorize those people. Some people will just say "I'm a mutt" or "I'm American". Sometimes people will say "my great great grandfather is German" but then everyone else in their family was not.

White Americans, the vast majority outside of some isolated Northeastern urban ethnic ghettos or some very rural towns highly ethnically mixed at least with two European nationalities, most more than that.

I have met "pure Italian" or "pure Irish people" in Chicago when I lived there, but they were usually only 3rd or 2nd generation. I have never met that type of "pure nationality" in other areas of America that are not prime immigration areas because people have never built up a ethnic community that makes it easier to meet and marry someone of the same ethnic group. Plus I have never met a German American (or a person with a German last name) who was not Amish from Pennsylvania or Ohio who spoke any German at all. The point in that is the ethnic barrier to meeting and marrying someone is very low, at least within one's race in the United States if both parties speak English as a first language.

My thinking about the statistic in Wiki (if even correct) is that the people who consider themselves German (or uni-ethnic) is higher than the average white American who does not identify with any one ethnic group and therefore can't fit into the sample.

[mariusj]

I think I know why German is considered the largest ancestry group in wiki.


Since English, Irish, Scottish, and Scottish-Irish are separated because of their ethnicity, even though they are from the same country [commonwealth, empire, kingdom, whatever] while Germans were generally considered to be Germans. . .

So if you count all those people who originated from GB [so skip the UK] then it surpass German population.

Although, I always thought Saxon is like cousin to Germanic ___________

[polar_zen]

English?

No. The United States as a whole has no official language. English is only "official" de facto, not de jure. At the most, English is an official language in 28 states, but that's it.

German was almost voted in to be adopted as the US national language sometime very early in American history. I think this might have been seen as a move to further distinguish themselves from the British maybe?

No, it never was. At best it is a legend.

Edited by polar_zen, 08 March 2008 - 01:42 PM.

[kaiselin]

No, it never was. At best it is a legend.

I second that comment.
I have never run across anything suggesting that German was concidered as a language.
That original side GZ quoted I find questionable at best.