28 replies to this topic

[snowybeagle]

Why did the CCP choose Beijing as the capital of PRC in 1949?

Was there some significance or strategic value over other cities?

[RollingWave]

Well, from what i under, because successsion is important for Chinese government, MOST successful dynasties took the old dynasty's capital as capital, you see that is partially why the capital remained in Xi An for so long even though it's economic value declined drastically.

When the CCP entered Beijing after the area commander surrendered, the civil war wasn't over, while the CCP was driven out of their old capital in Yian An, it was a great move to move into Beijing, the ancient capital for the pass 600 years, it gave them a lot of "legitamacy" in the eyes of many Chinese.

The Legitamacy was probably the biggest consideration at that time, that and the fact that they did not control many other viable capital worthy cities, while Beijing was not only obviously one of the most top worthy cities in China, it was also closest to their main powerbase in Machuria.

That's also one of my observation in Chinese history, the "power base" also usually plays a huge role in the consideration of capitals, most successful government will put their capital somewhere around where their main base was based in, where they have the most total support. there are many obvious examples, the most clear was why Ming Cheng Zu Yong Le moved from Nanjing to Beijing.

[浪淘音]

Well, from what i under, because successsion is important for Chinese government, MOST successful dynasties took the old dynasty's capital as capital, you see that is partially why the capital remained in Xi An for so long even though it's economic value declined drastically.

    When the CCP entered Beijing after the area commander surrendered, the civil war wasn't over, while the CCP was driven out of their old capital in Yian An, it was a great move to move into Beijing, the ancient capital for the pass 600 years, it gave them a lot of "legitamacy" in the eyes of many Chinese.

    The Legitamacy was probably the biggest consideration at that time, that and the fact that they did not control many other viable capital worthy cities, while Beijing was not only obviously one of the most top worthy cities in China, it was also closest to their main powerbase in Machuria.

    That's also one of my observation in Chinese history, the "power base" also usually plays a huge role in the consideration of capitals, most successful government will put their capital somewhere around where their main base was based in, where they have the most total support. there are many obvious examples, the most clear was why Ming Cheng Zu Yong Le moved from Nanjing to Beijing.

please stop using the word "Manchuria", Manchus don't even call the area ManJu Gurrunni(Manchuria), theres no such thing as Manchuria

anyway, back to the topic. In many ways, the current CCP inherited alot of concepts and imagery from Qing such as the Zhong Hua Min Zu concept, and claims on territories conquered during Qing China so choosing Beijing would only be logical

[snowybeagle]

To say that CCP chose BeiJing just because it was the capital of Qing alone does not seem sufficient.

Though Beijing had been the capital of Imperial China since Ming Dynasty's YongLe, it was demoted in terms of importance after the 1911 revolution, and subsequently renamed as BeiPing during the warlords' era, often changing de facto rulers.

Meanwhile, other (near) coastal cities such as ShangHai, GuangZhou and NanJing overtook it in terms of prominence and practical significance though BeiJing remained important symbolically. Even XiAn, ChengDu and ChongQing rivalled its influence.

1911 to 1949 is a very long time.

[Koolasuchus]

Meanwhile, other (near) coastal cities such as ShangHai, GuangZhou and NanJing overtook it in terms of prominence and practical significance though BeiJing remained important symbolically. Even XiAn, ChengDu and ChongQing rivalled its influence.

1911 to 1949 is a very long time.

It was also a time of saddness and national humilation. Many people look back to the glory days of old times. When deciding on national captial's location several cities were considered by Chairman Mao, they are: Kaifeng, Xian, Harbin, Beijing, Nanjing, and Wuhan. During a CCP debate, one by one, cities were eliminated from the list with only Beijing remains, so Beijing was chosen to be captial.

Here are the reasons:
Kaifeng --
pro: centrally located in Henan, captial of Song.
con: haven't been captial for a long time, bad infrastructure.

Xian --
pro: captial of several great dynasties, oldest city on the list.
con: too far west, bad economy, haven't been captial for a long time.

Harbin --
pro: located in CCP powerbase, close to ally USSR.
con: too far north, never was a captial city.

Wuhan --
pro: old revoltuionary captial, good economy, controls changjiang.
con: too far south, too freaking hot, never was a captial city.

Nanjing --
pro: existing central government infrastructure, good economy.
con: all governments that were based in Nanjing were short lived "xiao chao ting" that never ruled the whole of China, many Nationalist sympathizers.

Beijing --
pro: a well established culture of being the captial city, okay economy, right next to Dongbei and the industrial powerhouse that was Tianjing, have many communist sympathizers, easy to defend from the know enemies, was the captial of the last government that ruled all of China.
con: nothing negative was said about Beijing during that conference, as far as I know.

Shanghai --
pro: good economy... that was in the hands of foreigners.
con: this city was never even brought up during the discussion because it was considered to be a colonial city and a national disgrace by its mere existence. Also, all the important CCP members that was from Shanghai were purged, defected, or felt out of favour by 1949.

[RollingWave]

To say that CCP chose BeiJing just because it was the capital of Qing alone does not seem sufficient.

Though Beijing had been the capital of Imperial China since Ming Dynasty's YongLe, it was demoted in terms of importance after the 1911 revolution, and subsequently renamed as BeiPing during the warlords' era, often changing de facto rulers.

Meanwhile, other (near) coastal cities such as ShangHai, GuangZhou and NanJing overtook it in terms of prominence and practical significance though BeiJing remained important symbolically. Even XiAn, ChengDu and ChongQing rivalled its influence.

1911 to 1949 is a very long time.

That's not correct, first of all, Beijing was renamed Beiping in 1926 IIRC. during 1911-1926 Beijing was still the effective capital under the warlord BeiYang government. excluding the 8 year resistances war, there was only a decade where Beijing was not the capital of China. And this decade the capital in Nanjing was far from stable with at least one great war as a result of nationalist and warlord dispute and the continuous war against the communist.

Also, when the Communist entered Beijing and made it the capital, it havn't won the Chinese civil war yet, it had 0 control over Nanjing and Shanghai and other more notable southern cities. and like I said, it's real powerbase at that praticular time was based in North Eastern China, Beijing seems like the best choice within northern China.

[Merchant]

Good discussion! But here is another view. Let's not forget it is Maoze Dong we are talking about here. He was what he would like to say as "Feng Jian" as it gets. The guy wanted to be an emperor badly. Anyone who went through the little "red book" and chanted "Mao Zu Xi Wan Sui" knows. Who dares to be called "Wan Sui" beside the emperor? Beijing has the palaces and the recent history of being the emperor's home. Naturally he would choose Beijing as the Capital. In his mind, as soon as he had captured Beijing, he had all that was needed to declare the birth of the Mao Dynasty.

I posted this article on another topic, be it still suits well for what we are talking about here

What I worte here, I heard from a taxi driver in Xi-An.

Before Mao went to Beijing to celebrate his new "republic", he stoped by WuTaiShan and asked the old monk there to read his fortune. To be specific,as Mao always had been, he asked if it was wise to move into "Emperor's Palace". The old monk told him frankly :"You, sir, are not a heavenly dragon, you are a dirt dragon. If you move into the palace you will be cursed. You must live to the west of the palace and not to claim the throne. But you must have a TaiJian to take care of you"
Mao noded and did just that. He lived happily ever after, and he did not live down the title of the "dirt dragon", he did have many many many unofficial you know what. As for the TaiJian, he (can you really call it a he?), helped to get rid of Lin Biao and others. Who was the TaiJian? The one who did not have any children.

[Manguo]

It was also a time of saddness and national humilation. Many people look back to the glory days of old times. When deciding on national captial's location several cities were considered by Chairman Mao, they are: Kaifeng, Xian, Harbin, Beijing, Nanjing, and Wuhan. During a CCP debate, one by one, cities were eliminated from the list with only Beijing remains, so Beijing was chosen to be captial.

Here are the reasons:
Kaifeng --
pro: centrally located in Henan, captial of Song.
con: haven't been captial for a long time, bad infrastructure.

Xian --
pro: captial of several great dynasties, oldest city on the list.
con: too far west, bad economy, haven't been captial for a long time.

Harbin --
pro: located in CCP powerbase, close to ally USSR.
con: too far north, never was a captial city.

Wuhan --
pro: old revoltuionary captial, good economy, controls changjiang.
con: too far south, too freaking hot, never was a captial city.

Nanjing --
pro: existing central government infrastructure, good economy.
con: all governments that were based in Nanjing were short lived "xiao chao ting" that never ruled the whole of China, many Nationalist sympathizers.

Beijing --
pro: a well established culture of being the captial city, okay economy, right next to Dongbei and the industrial powerhouse that was Tianjing, have many communist sympathizers, easy to defend from the know enemies, was the captial of the last government that ruled all of China.
con: nothing negative was said about Beijing during that conference, as far as I know.

Shanghai --
pro: good economy... that was in the hands of foreigners.
con: this city was never even brought up during the discussion because it was considered to be a colonial city and a national disgrace by its mere existence. Also, all the important CCP members that was from Shanghai were purged, defected, or felt out of favour by 1949.

That's really interesting!

Where did you learn about this? I would love to read the details of that decision. Is there a book or an article you could point me to? Thanks!

[Optimus]

Also, when the Communist entered Beijing and made it the capital, it havn't won the Chinese civil war yet, it had 0 control over Nanjing and Shanghai and other more notable southern cities. and like I said, it's real powerbase at that praticular time was based in North Eastern China, Beijing seems like the best choice within northern China.

I thought Mao only declared the People Republic on October 1st, 1949. That meant he has already conquered Nanjing and Shanghai. The southern provinces were under the communists by then.

[haidao]

I really think Wuhan would have been a better Capital. I think the current Capital is too far North. In reality they should have constructed a new Capital City, just like Brazil did when they built Brazilia, where North and South China meet.

[Yizheng]

I really think Wuhan would have been a better Capital. I think the current Capital is too far North. In reality they should have constructed a new Capital City, just like Brazil did when they built Brazilia, where North and South China meet.

Maybe with this logic Yekaterinburg should be made capital of Russia rather than Moscow, because it's more in the middle.
There is more than just geographic considerations involved. A historically already established capital has symbolic significance too and helps to confer legitimacy of a kind on the new regime, helps give people a sense of continuity and stability. The Manchus didn't much like Beijing, that's why they were always escaping to Rehe, but they kept Beijing as the capital, I think a lot for that symbolic reason.
Besides, I think Mao had a strong power base in north China anyway, so it made sense enough for him to want to have his capital there, and the Russians in 1949 were his allies, and having the capital not so far from one's strongest military allies and suppliers probably made sense.

Aside from all that, it's really expensive to move capitals. Of course, there's always the option of doing like the Liao and Jin and having several capitals and rotate between them. That's kind of what the early Qing ended up doing to, spending part of the time in Rehe, part of the time in the summer palace, and only the minimum time in Beijing itself.

[haidao]

^If Russia had moved there Capital to the center of Russia then maybe they could have helped populate those areas of Russia. Of course there is no guarantee the people would move there.

All national leaders are suppose to represent the entire nation equally and not favor one part over another. Problems start when one section of a nation is favored over another. So moving the Capital of China to a point where North and South China meet would seem a good idea. Especially with all the historical rivalry between those areas.

[Wayne]

The capital of China should have started to shift towards the Yangzi delta region along with the shift of country's economic centre there. The arid north was no longer of significant economic value ever since the fall of the Tang. It was for political reasons that Beijing gained precedence as the capital. It was the capital of the Jurchen Jin Dynasty and the Mongol Yuan Dynasty for obvious reasons that it was close to their homelands. The Yongle Emperor shifted the Ming capital to Beijing because he was a usurper and felt safer in his powerbase in Beijing, since he was Prince of Yan. The succeeding Qing Dynasty took over Beijing as the successors of the Ming, and again for the fact that it was close to home in Manchuria. The CCP chose Beijing probably because of the weight of history and its prestige. Mao probably wished to rule like those autocratic emperors associated with this city. And it was close to then ally Russia.

In my opinion Beijing has been bad for China. It turned China into an inward looking continental empire with no maritime interests. A capital in the Yangzi delta could have helped China become less isolated, and perhaps more ready for the challenges it was to face in the 19th century. Maybe it would not be so large in size on the continent, but it might have alternatively amassed overseas possessions of greater economic value. I'm speculating wildly here! Of course there are several other important reasons for China's stagnation, but this should count as one of them.

Edited by Wayne, 25 August 2009 - 10:39 PM.

[alexgch]

The capital of China should have started to shift towards the Yangzi delta region along with the shift of country's economic centre there. The arid north was no longer of significant economic value ever since the fall of the Tang. It was for political reasons that Beijing gained precedence as the capital. It was the capital of the Jurchen Jin Dynasty and the Mongol Yuan Dynasty for obvious reasons that it was close to their homelands. The Yongle Emperor shifted the Ming capital to Beijing because he was a usurper and felt safer in his powerbase in Beijing, since he was Prince of Yan. The succeeding Qing Dynasty took over Beijing as the successors of the Ming, and again for the fact that it was close to home in Manchuria. The CCP chose Beijing probably because of the weight of history and its prestige. Mao probably wished to rule like those autocratic emperors associated with this city. And it was close to then ally Russia.

In my opinion Beijing has been bad for China. It turned China into an inward looking continental empire with no maritime interests. A capital in the Yangzi delta could have helped China become less isolated, and perhaps more ready for the challenges it was to face in the 19th century. Maybe it would not be so large in size on the continent, but it might have alternatively amassed overseas possessions of greater economic value. I'm speculating wildly here! Of course there are several other important reasons for China's stagnation, but this should count as one of them.

I do not know the reasons why Beijing was chosed as the new capital of China after the founding of PRC but I believe the CCP waould have wanted to establish its prestige of the new state by not inheriting the previous capital of ROC, that is Nanjing.