23 replies to this topic

[Yun]

In fact, even in the Three Kingdoms, this one-handed mini-ji (shouji) was still being used by such warriors as Dian Wei.

Regarding the use of the ji against heavy cavalry, our key piece of evidence that by middle of the Age of Fragmentation only the spearhead of the ji was proving to be useful, while the horizontal blade was being phased out, is two mural representations of ji of the time. In one, the horizontal blade has been curved forward to form a kind of fork with the spearhead. In the other, the end of the horizontal blade is angled forward at 90 degrees.

However, Thomas Chen has mentioned to me that some ji actually had a horizontal blade that angled backwards, as a kind of hook. This is more in keeping with anti-chariot and anti-infantry warfare. Can anyone verify this piece of info?

[Kenneth]

For charioteers, because of the chariot being in constant motion, the dagger part, one stuck in an enemies body would be likely to stay there. Because of the length of the weapon and the fact the chariot is in motion, it is much more difficuit for you to pull it out as you can't use your body for draw strength on, only your arms. So if you actually swung it and hit someone sqaure in the chest, you would be dragging him along for the ride rendering your weapon useless for the next attack.

Not if you note many of the earlier dagger axes (Spring and Autumn) have an upturned point so once swung into flesh if pulled on would drag away and open a wound rather than hook into.
My larger of 2 dagger axes has a edge which clearly would cut like a blade on a pull away.
I only have 2 in my possesion but look at as many images as I can find.
Larger later dagger axes like the Qin versions and others hook in more like what you mean, but then could be used differently to hook and slice if held by polearmed infantry.
I am still quite sure the person on the other end would be more the inconvenienced if hooked by it!
Again, it was used in a mostly comparible form for several hundred years during times of many other military adjustments/improvements and developments (cavalry/chariots/armour/arrow heads/crossbows/swords)....yet it continued from earlier periods and throughout the Warring States period.

It must have worked well.
Stab!
Slash!
ARGGHHH!

[HaSY]

about the dagger axe like ji...
does it function like an halberd which you actually grab the rider out of his mount and then stab/slash/kill him?

another question is does Lu Bu's halberd is a weapon that can be used to kill?(because i heard that it is just a ceremonial weapon)

[浪淘音]

about the dagger axe like ji...
does it function like an halberd which you actually grab the rider out of his mount and then stab/slash/kill him?

another question is does Lu Bu's halberd is a weapon that can be used to kill?(because i heard that it is just a ceremonial weapon)

LOL sorry, that question is kind of funny because of the way it was worded

that type of halberd did not exist at the time so it certainly would be difficult for lu bu to kill someone with an imaginary weapon

[RollingWave]

Hasy, the warring state's Ji original purpose was to hook charioteers off their chariots, the same could be accomplished of calvary but it is certainly a lot more diificult (and dangerous), which was why Ji from west Han onward began to look ever more like a fork than a pole axe, and eventrually it was completely replaced by spears and other more specialized polearms.

As for Fang Tian Hua Ji, it is a real weapon, however it was also incrediablly complicated to produce relative to other more specialized weapons and also doesn't do any of the task better than the weapon it was specifically designed for. so that's really why it was never widely used it in battle.

[Wujiang]

some speculate that the upward tilt of the sideways blade wasn't as much for cutting people (although there is that element), but more of the probabily of the user may actually lose their weapon if they fail the hook.

The problem with the hook is that it can go both ways should you actually get the blade to lock onto your target. Because as much as there is a force pulling back for the target, there is the same opposite force for the user. Which means if you don't hold it firmly enough, it would slip right out of your hands. And since battle can last quite a while, a mechanism needs to be installed so even if you were not that prepared or even if the hook itself was more accidental, you won't have lost your weapon.

I also know that there a Ges which the dagger blade is pointed indicating that it was used for puncturing things. But chance are they were used for hammering people once they have fallen over. Combining gravity with a heavy weapon with a pointy spike is always a good idea.

[zuwairi]

Firstly sorry for my english, I want to know, how ji infantry arrange with sword infantry, it is sword infantry stand at front of ji infantry with sheild or ji infantry at the center and sword infantry at both flank so when an enemy attack ji infantry will hold the enemy at the bay and sword team will attack them at the flank and rear.

I had heard ancient chinese army had three type of infantry, swordman, spearman/halbeardier and an archer/crossbowman. How their arrange this type at war? Had their ever been documented.

[Jiang Qin]

If compared to other great empires like Persian, the Ottoman, Roman and other empires, were those "spearlike or polearm weapons" as important to them as to the Chinese?

I thought that the Roman infantry units prefer their short swords to the more range effective "spearlike weapons" for their infantry units. Is it true?

[ih8eurocentrix]

true most roman infantry was equiped with a short stabbing sword ,but they also had Triarii which were used to cover the flank they were equipped with a medium sized spear and a large sheild.The roman infantry was able to beat the phalanx formations due to superior mobility of its infantry and flexibilty of its formations